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Discussion Starter #81
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I'm sure their welds held on, I just don't think that the issue originated from where they thought. Back to the drawing board, I'll update again Monday after discussion with the dealer service manager and SOA rep.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I had a rear squeak in my car, it turned out to be the rear seat upper locking mechanism. Extremely annoying!
 

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Discussion Starter #83 (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

So being incredibly fed up with this while situation, hell bound to find the root cause, Tom (mnym8kr) and I went for some test drives over some crappy roads earlier to try to get to the bottom of this. I'll elaborate on that later, probably with videos if they're viable, but for now the short of it is that there is a chance we've found the source.... The hatch damper & support.

... to be continued.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

WOW man, Im without words. Sorry to hear that. I think its time for them to buy your car back and issue you a new one!

Fingers remain crossed for you, good luck!

Disconnect the dampers and go over your 3/4" bump. If they are squeaking that should tell you.
 

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Discussion Starter #85 (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Here is a 10 minute video from our one hour test drive. I edited it down to get the squeak's 'greatest hits'.


After our drive earlier we went to Tom's house and started looking at possible causes. We removed all plastics from the hatch door and with it closed, he took an orbital buffer to the exterior and nothing major was audible. So we opened the hatch and he took the buffer to interior surfaces. We noticed an absolutely obnoxious rattle coming from the passenger side of the hatch door. I grabbed a hold of the damper while he applied pressure with the buffer and the rattle stopped.

The passenger side hatch damper had a lot of play in it, and the rubber bushing around the mount on the chassis seems to be worn because when I moved it there was a metal-on-metal clanking. There was also a clanking coming from the joint on the hatch door. I tried the same with the driver side hatch damper and it was much more solid on the chassis, but still had a clanking on the hatch door... however much less noticeable.

We removed both dampers and put them in his garage with the plastics from the hatch door and went for another drive. Hitting the same bump that causes the squeak to occur every day for me, yielded no squeak this time... Hmm, I better do a u-turn and do that again just to be sure... nope, no squeak. Daww, OK once more for funsies... sweet, no squeak! I don't want to celebrate prematurely but it seems we may have found the cause.

Tomorrow, we're going to go on another plasticless-damperless-hatch-door drive while the car is cool (it's 110~ right now) to make sure the metals weren't just more pliable and not squeaking because it was warm. If it doesn't squeak, I'll be more optimistic.

I should note that it is likely we're on to something here, because when the service manager was diagnosing the issue he said that he got the squeak to stop by having one of his techs wedge a screw driver between the layers in the roof near the hatch (see first pic in post #33 for reference). In order for his tech to do this, the hatch would have to be open, furthermore I'm sure they were holding it open if they were driving with someone in the hatch so it didn't close on him. This would relieve pressure from the damper, thus preventing the squeak. We'll see though, only time will tell where this goes.

I will say that we're going to get some adhesive foam & felt from Home Depot, or whatever artsy-fartsy store we have around here, to keep the plastic panels on the hatch door from rattling so much... they sound awful all on their own.

More updates will be posted as I have them.

BTW, thanks again Tom... your help is greatly appreciated, sir. :tup:
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

nice...date palm does have some crappy road. Another section would be on ramon between da vall and bob hope. the road seems worse than date palm...it should be used as a final testing lol
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

At least the damper wont take weeks on end to fix :D

Hope that is the problem and everything gets fixed zip-zoom ;)
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

great work guys, keep us posted...i love everything about my gr except hard plastics and rear hatch squeek!
 

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Discussion Starter #89 (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Today Tom and I went for another drive after the car had some time to 'cool off' in my garage overnight. I drove over "the bump" that was 'featured' in the last 30~ seconds of the video clip and didn't get a squeak.

We drove to Lowes to pick up some of this stuff to put on the rear plastics when we reinstall them.


We hit "the bump" again on the way and we didn't get a squeak, which is good. :)

I'm going to leave the panels and dampers off and bring our findings to the dealer service manager on Monday. If this turns out to be the root cause and we were able to properly diagnose it by thinking out of the box, as opposed to blindly throwing parts and invasive repairs at it... I'm going to be a little less than pleased and feel that Subaru should reimburse me (see; do something to restore my customer loyalty and faith) somehow. I don't know what or how, but... something. Do you guys think that's unrealistic? :confused:
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Good job editing the video, please excuse my finger for wandering over the microphone a few times. I'm excited.....for now it seems we found the problem, only time and more miles will tell.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I can't believe that the dealer would have thousands of dollars of work done without being sure about what was causing the problem. No money out of his pocket, so he probably didn't care. They wouldn't have my business any longer after that ordeal.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I can't believe that the dealer would have thousands of dollars of work done without being sure about what was causing the problem. No money out of his pocket, so he probably didn't care. They wouldn't have my business any longer after that ordeal.
^^ I completely agree and mentioned that same thought as we were driving home amazed that we might have found the cause of the squeak to be a $100 set of trunk dampers/assists that could have been identified and changed many months ago. I hope SOA does not reimburse the dealer for any charges ariseing from their obvious mis-diagnosis and overly invasive repair. I would also recommend writing some letters to SOA regional representatives to ensure the dealer is repremanded.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I'm going to leave the panels and dampers off and bring our findings to the dealer service manager on Monday. If this turns out to be the root cause and we were able to properly diagnose it by thinking out of the box, as opposed to blindly throwing parts and invasive repairs at it... I'm going to be a little less than pleased and feel that Subaru should reimburse me (see; do something to restore my customer loyalty and faith) somehow. I don't know what or how, but... something. Do you guys think that's unrealistic? :confused:
I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes... I don't really think the dealer owes you anything. Yes the squeak was mis-diagnosed but the whole car is metal which can cause the noise to sound like it was coming from anywhere. For example, ever tried to diagnose a squeak on an aluminum framed mountain bike? It's pretty much impossible. You were continually pushing the dealer to provide a solution so they were taking their best shot at what they thought the problem was. Most dealerships I know would have just jiggled around some stuff and told you they couldn't find it and to deal with it. Admittedly it sounds like their techs could use some classes on problem solving but it's not like they threw some glue on it and said they fixed it. They genuinely gave it a shot at fixing it.

I understand you're frustrated with having to be without your car for weeks at a time but lets face it... it's a 15k dollar car with 20k worth of drivetrain in it. It's never going to be as quiet and rattle-proof as a pricier car like a BMW, MB, etc.

Cliffnotes: I think the dealership took their best shot at repairing it and you should give them credit for footing that huge bill when they could have just told you to shove it. Get them to fix the hatch supports and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #94 (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes... I don't really think the dealer owes you anything. Yes the squeak was mis-diagnosed but the whole car is metal which can cause the noise to sound like it was coming from anywhere. For example, ever tried to diagnose a squeak on an aluminum framed mountain bike? It's pretty much impossible. You were continually pushing the dealer to provide a solution so they were taking their best shot at what they thought the problem was. Most dealerships I know would have just jiggled around some stuff and told you they couldn't find it and to deal with it. Admittedly it sounds like their techs could use some classes on problem solving but it's not like they threw some glue on it and said they fixed it. They genuinely gave it a shot at fixing it.

I understand you're frustrated with having to be without your car for weeks at a time but lets face it... it's a 15k dollar car with 20k worth of drivetrain in it. It's never going to be as quiet and rattle-proof as a pricier car like a BMW, MB, etc.

Cliffnotes: I think the dealership took their best shot at repairing it and you should give them credit for footing that huge bill when they could have just told you to shove it. Get them to fix the hatch supports and call it a day.
You have valid points, but keep in mind that this isn't a typical plastic rattle we're talking about here... this is an issue that they weren't able to properly diagnose for nearly 7 months, then come to the conclusion that the issue was a broken weld in the hatch support area. Now, a couple months further down the road we find out that it's potentially something much more simplistic like a damper. I don't want to recap all of the events that have taken place, as they're already posted in this thread, but given the progression and variables of the situation thus far I believe I've been quite patient through it all

As for continually pushing, please take note of how it all started. There are spans of well over a month where I just figured I'd let them 'look at it next time its in for service.' I only began pursuing this adamantly once they identified broken welds and wrongfully denied my warranty claim. I'm not at my wits end with this, I realize things happen and 'losing my sh*t' over it won't accomplish anything at all... but it is a bit frustrating to have potentially located an issue that trained Subaru service technicians couldn't get a hold of for roughly a year now. Nevermind all of the invasive repairs with welding, the dings, paintwork, etc.

Here's an experiment, do I bring the car back to them and let them keep plugging away to see if they ever come up with an effective resolve? My answer is no, I don't think this would be very productive at all.

However, if the issue was/is related to a weld, as presumed up until this point (again, potentially)... This should raise at least one eyebrow for pretty much anyone. I have been ignoring interior rattles in this car, more so than I did in my Hondas (not that there are more, I've just got other more important things to tackle). I expect rattles, it's "just a car", and I will eventually get to sorting them out. The problem here is a metal on metal clanking/squeaking that shouldn't be an issue in even a first generation Kia ;), especially if it's presumed to be caused by a broken weld, regardless of where that weld is located. I mean, if someone wanted to really make an ordeal out of this they could take the 'chicken little' approach and ask, "How many more potentially faulty welds are back there?" Again, I have better things to do.

Keeping in mind that they're not even aware of a potential realistic resolution at this point, I just feel that this has taken far too long to sort out. All they have is my voice mail stating the problem persists and that we'll talk today. Speaking of which, I need to make a phone call.....
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

My hatch "squeaked" like this for years. I never cared, and thus never spent a day with it in the shop. I traded it in a while back and look fondly upon my years of ownership.

Turn the radio up, enjoy your damn car! Or, since it's been such an epic drama, pursue a buy-back?
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

You have valid points, but keep in mind that this isn't a typical plastic rattle we're talking about here... this is an issue that they weren't able to properly diagnose for nearly 7 months, then come to the conclusion that the issue was a broken weld in the hatch support area. Now, a couple months further down the road we find out that it's potentially something much more simplistic like a damper. I don't want to recap all of the events that have taken place, as they're already posted in this thread, but given the progression and variables of the situation thus far I believe I've been quite patient through it all

As for continually pushing, please take note of how it all started. There are spans of well over a month where I just figured I'd let them 'look at it next time its in for service.' I only began pursuing this adamantly once they identified broken welds and wrongfully denied my warranty claim. I'm not at my wits end with this, I realize things happen and 'losing my sh*t' over it won't accomplish anything at all... but it is a bit frustrating to have potentially located an issue that trained Subaru service technicians couldn't get a hold of for roughly a year now. Nevermind all of the invasive repairs with welding, the dings, paintwork, etc.

Here's an experiment, do I bring the car back to them and let them keep plugging away to see if they ever come up with an effective resolve? My answer is no, I don't think this would be very productive at all.

However, if the issue was/is related to a weld, as presumed up until this point (again, potentially)... This should raise at least one eyebrow for pretty much anyone. I have been ignoring interior rattles in this car, more so than I did in my Hondas (not that there are more, I've just got other more important things to tackle). I expect rattles, it's "just a car", and I will eventually get to sorting them out. The problem here is a metal on metal clanking/squeaking that shouldn't be an issue in even a first generation Kia ;), especially if it's presumed to be caused by a broken weld, regardless of where that weld is located. I mean, if someone wanted to really make an ordeal out of this they could take the 'chicken little' approach and ask, "How many more potentially faulty welds are back there?" Again, I have better things to do.

Keeping in mind that they're not even aware of a potential realistic resolution at this point, I just feel that this has taken far too long to sort out. All they have is my voice mail stating the problem persists and that we'll talk today. Speaking of which, I need to make a phone call.....
I never meant to imply that you haven't been patient. And I've been following this thread since just about the beginning (while searching for a solution to my own metal squeaking sound :D) so I realize what steps have been taken. All I'm saying is that I don't see a valid reason to try and "get" something out of them other than a fully repaired car. Either way I must commend you for your patience through this whole matter and hope they fix it and get you on the road so that you can enjoy your car. :tup:
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

My hatch "squeaked" like this for years. I never cared, and thus never spent a day with it in the shop. I traded it in a while back and look fondly upon my years of ownership.

Turn the radio up, enjoy your damn car! Or, since it's been such an epic drama, pursue a buy-back?
As I stated, I can deal with plastic rattles... but unknown sources of metal squeaking/clanking not so much. Not only because of the audible effects, but if the source is unknown If I were to 'get on the couch' about this particular issue, road trips from IL to PA as a young child in a full sized van would probably come out of the wood-work :lol:. Our van had the same exact noise resonating from the double side doors that absolutely drove me nuts. After several trips like this my dad finally fixed it with some rubber injection material of some sort.

BTW, snoring has the same effect on me... my mom was a snorer, any time I hear the hint of a snore my blood boils. I've found ways to manage that though, ear plugs ;). Not so safe for driving though, haha.

Thanks for your input guys, it's appreciated. I enjoy my STi and look forward to hopefully many more years of doing so, whether it becomes just a project toy or remains my daily driver. :tup:
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I stopped by the dealer on lunch and spoke to the service manager. I showed him the video from Saturday's test drive and what we thought could be the root cause. There was expected speculation, but he seemed receptive and said that he would order replacement dampers for the hatch. His reservation was this; without the dampers holding the weight of the hatch, there is more pressure on the potential problem area, thus stopping the squeak.

Anyways, he also has sun visor clips on order, because in the midst of all of this work mine were broken. I will continue to drive the car without any plastics on the hatch and the dampers removed. I'll update the service manager when I pick up the visor clips later in the week.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

All I'm saying is that I don't see a valid reason to try and "get" something out of them other than a fully repaired car.
I thought I should reply to this specifically and say that your point is very well taken. I just want to make it clear that even though it may have 'sounded' that way, my intentions weren't to 'try to score' off of this.

Being that internal and external customer service is a key aspect to any goods & service related industry, I personally would feel I needed to do something for my customer if they had experienced all of this and eventually ended up figuring it out on their own. Again, if we have in fact found the root cause... jury is still out. All I really want is this specific squeak sorted out once and for all.

Thanks again for your input, I'll let you guys know how this turns out.
 

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Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

As a former dealer service department employee for 3 years, in my opinion this is unacceptable. Sales dept. sells the first car and service sells every subsequent vehicle.

The problem snowballed from lazy technicians that are paid on a flat rate scale, unless a part is replaced or the cause corrected they are not paid for diagnostic time. This problem was relatively easy for me to locate but required some time on the road to duplicate the problem and a little out-of-the-box thinking. I used a strong orbital buffer to duplicate the problem then started a basic process of elimination until the cause was located. This 2 hour process of diagnosis to come up with worn dampers would have only yielded about .3-1.0 hour of pay for a technician to change trunk dampers. Lazy techs and a complacent service manager are the problem here......so, yes I feel Deek should be compensated in some way for lost time and headaches (literally).
 
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