[lars_cockswell]

Well? How about it?

I've got the Subaru Impreza Story on DVD and there's a great section with a 22B going around the Nurburgring with a heads-up-display of the speed. Impressive performance!!!

Should I expect worse, similar, or better performance from the 2004 STi for N.A.? Or how about vs. the U.K. P1? Anyone can compare HP and torque but what about overall ability that a track the 'ring demands?

Bottom line: would the same driver on the same track under the same conditions have faster lap times in the new STi vs. the 22B?

Lars

 

[JJ]

I would say that the Impreza we are getting should surpass even the 22B as the "ultimate" Impreza (they are all good, though. )

I would expect equal and possibly better lap times on a road course due to the new chassis technology, and the updated AWD system. STi's technology has made HUGE strides since the 22B and P1.

We should call it the 25B.

 

[chawklit]

i'd say the older lighter cars would probably win.

 

[SnowbordrWRX]

i'd say the older lighter cars would probably win.

How do you know it will be lighter? Has the official weight of our USDM 25B :wink: been announced?

Unless there's a significant weight difference, I'd have to agree with JJ that the 25B would be the fastest...after all, it has the latest technology as well as the most displacement

 

[jbhebert]

The new NA STi would almost definately match or surpass the 22B in every regard. Granted, the 22B weighs in at 2800 lbs., but it only made 276 HP and 265 lb. ft. torque. The NA STi makes 300/300. If it weighs 3200 lbs., the power/weight numbers will be nearly identical. Add the additional torque, and I can see the NA STi being faster. Also, the NA STi has a close ratio 6 speed that may keep the engine in the power band better. As others have mentioned, there has been 5 years of suspension development since the 22B was released. Most likely the NA STi will handle better, as well. Finally, with the DCCD and other mods, it will probably be "easier" to drive fast.

Just my $0.02.

 

[CloNeGTS]

Amen to that JB....

Just addressing the DCCD....that Best Motoring VCD showed how the new STi is better than the very last STi because of the control over the under/oversteer of the car.

I'm very much looking forward to owning to all-ass-kicking Subaru!

 

[darwood]

From what I understand the 22B only made "276 HP and 265 lb. ft. torque" on paper. The real specs were estimated to be much higher. Who knows.

 

[91TB78]

The new car will win in nearly any situations.

I think the only concern I have after seeing it in person is how many people over here in Germany will want to steal the thing just for the engine???

 

[jbhebert]

From what I understand the 22B only made "276 HP and 265 lb. ft. torque" on paper. The real specs were estimated to be much higher. Who knows.

According to several reliable sources, the car actually dynoed at 280PS and 360Nm. This is the equivalent of 276 hP and 265 lb. ft. torque.

 

[darwood]

According to several reliable sources, the car actually dynoed at 280PS and 360Nm. This is the equivalent of 276 hP and 265 lb. ft. torque.

Ok I'll take your word for it. Was that at the flywheel or wheels. Cars aren't usually dynoed at the flywheel by anyone other than the manufacturer. It's kinda a PITA to dyno a motor at the flywheel once it's in the car. Besides I like knowing HP at the wheels since this is really what you are getting.

I remember watching some videos of a 22b and it was jaw dropping.

cheers,

 

[jbhebert]

Usually, there are correction factors that can be used to convert wheel HP to crank HP based on the driveline configuration. The 276 for the 22B was calculated at the crank, just like the 300 for the NA STi. More often than not, when a JDM car that is rumored to blow the 276 number out of the water is put on a dyno, they aren't making that much more. I think it's a rumor that has gotten kinda out of hand. One of the few vehicles can think of that really does that is the Skyline GT-R, which I've seen dyno sheets on that well exceed 300 HP on a stock engine.

 

[darwood]

Cool,

Thanks for the info. I had bought into the whole 276 HP rumor.

 

[wrrrx]

Great question Lars, unfortunately one that no one can really answer yet.

Of course questions like this are always extremely subjective- if you *only* care about which is quicker around Nurburgring, I think it would be very very close between the 22B and the USDM STi, since both have high hp/weight ratios and both have adjustable diffs.

UK's EVO magazine (NO relation to the car!) had a killer test in it's Aug 2001 issue with the P1 vs the RB5 vs the UK 300 (all Prodrive specials), vs "grey import" JDM STi (note this is well before the new "twin scroll" JDM STi).
The results, again quite subjective, were interesting. The P1 came out on top, although the JDM STi was faster. They didn't care for the compromises the STi made for top-end power, it was very "laggy". They definitely thought both GDB models (the JDM STi and the UK300) were heavier and slower thru the twisties. They liked the RB5 better for day-to-day driving than the manic P1, as it's suspension was more compliant and it felt more nimble and more forgiving on the kidneys.
It's the same argument as EVO vs STi- in nearly every faceoff the EVO wins on the track, but for actual everyday driving, i.e. a car you could actually live with, the STi usually wins. 8)
That super-harsh competition style suspension kicks arse on the track, but sucks for real-life driving. This is the greatest criticism against the fabulous 22B as well- it offers great Subaru styling and EVO driving. Whether that's good or bad depends on what you truly intend to do with the car.

Of course, this all means nothing until the USDM versions of both the EVO and the STi are really put thru the ringer in tests- and compared to each other. Make no mistake, even without all the electronic gizmos, the USDM EVO is going to be one helluva car. AND with a slightly softer suspension, for us soft Americans, it may very make the EVO much more liveable, as well. Do not make the mistake of dismissing them lightly...

Which (finally) brings us to the USDM STi.. I think it will be awesome! I believe the suspension will be a tad softer than JDM versions (I hope so actually), and the biggest complaint, the turbo lag, should be much alleviated with the extra 0.5 liter. If you want it stiffer, hey, that's easy to fix... and keep in mind that in some situations softer can be faster- just not on the track!

My $5 worth,
Russ Rainforth

 

[STiObserver]

I have always heard that the 22B had more than the 276 HP that's listed as its spec - like a lot closer to 300 or even a little bit more than that. Don't know about the torque tho' ...

I had heard that there is some sort of "gentlemen's agreement" in reference to the Japanese automakers not advertising a vehicle (a model sold in Japan, that is) as having more than 280 HP.

I think it has something to do with insurance or something like that.

Also remember something about the Skyline in this regard.

Or am I just nuts...

 

[jbhebert]

I have always heard that the 22B had more than the 276 HP that's listed as its spec - like a lot closer to 300 or even a little bit more than that. Don't know about the torque tho' ...

I had heard that there is some sort of "gentlemen's agreement" in reference to the Japanese automakers not advertising a vehicle (a model sold in Japan, that is) as having more than 280 HP.

I think it has something to do with insurance or something like that.

Also remember something about the Skyline in this regard.

Or am I just nuts...

See posts above.

 

[STiObserver]

Typical me - read half the thread and say the same thing already written...

Duh