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Best gen STI for time attack

7K views 38 replies 9 participants last post by  TBAG 
#1 ·
Hello

Not sure where to post this..

Im looking for feedback as to which gen is best suited for fairly moderate track work?

My previous car as an FRS that was heavily modifid and before that I raced an S2000 and was pretty involved.

Now Im looking for a 4dr that will b modded to ‘street’ class spec, or thereabouts.

Is the multi link rear suspension a huge upgrade?
Did the ‘15+ gain anything worth mentioning?

Im looking for something as low cost as possible that will turn a decent lap time on R comps.


Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
Welcome d k,

Ok first things first. This is not the ideal chassis for TA. Heavy chassis, unreliable engines that run hot.
You can make it work but how far will depend on your budget.

For moderate track use and "street class"and assuming you are set on Subaru as starting point:
GC is the best chassis, small compact and light weight.

Get a straight two door shell, put GD subframes and 5x114 suspension in, 6 speed and get a closed deck motor from a good builder: P2P, IAG,...

To be competitive you need around 550whp on your high boost plus a well sorted chassis and reliability...

If you cant find a GC shell, clean GDB.
VA is a heavier chassis, needs serious stripping to reduce weight to 1400kgs (you can get 1200s in GC easily). However a very good and stiff chassis. Sally has built one and looks fast and promising however, she has IAG backing.

In my books:
GC>GD>VA>rest
 
#6 ·
To be competitive you need around 550whp on your high boost plus a well sorted chassis and reliability...
+1 for TBAG's advice. Spot on.

If you must have a Subaru, plan on spending some serious dough and face reliability issues if you want to be 'reliably' competitive. With the money it will take, there are other platforms that will take a lot less time (for the same money) to keep them on the track. I see a lot of road course guys get frustrated and go to GT3s, as you spend the same money keeping a Subaru intact and far more often need to winch it onto the trailer at the end of the day.

I love these cars, but knowing where their natural capabilities lie will save you some serious money and frustration.
Where do these cars' natural capabilities lie? KillerB, are you talking about spending GT3 money to make the car reliable at 550whp+ level?

I'm in a spot where I love this car and like the idea of performance driving, considering Time Attack like the OP. I know I need a lot more seat time though, and the car is still nearly stock. Would love the input from two forum members who have "been there/done that", so to speak.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the responses guys!

Im not ‘set’ on anyhing at this point.
Ive done a buttload of research and thats what has led me here.

My FRS started off the same way, nect thing I know, its a trailer queen but at least winning races.

This time around Im ‘limiting’ myself to no going past the street class and Id like it to be a 4door (2dr/4seater ok)
(I tried to post a pic of my frs, but my photobucket is being weird)

Im not ‘married’ to any brand or any chassis att his point. I figured an awd would be a better starting point and I looked Evo X, but the dual clutch rebuild is xpensive/scary.

So not sure where to go from here....
If you have suggestions, Im all ears

I would like 3200lb race weight or less, a car that will fit 285’s, a car that will b competitive in the street class and either rwd or awd.

FYI, another chassis Im researching is the BMW M235i

Thanks
 
#5 ·
+1 for TBAG's advice. Spot on.

If you must have a Subaru, plan on spending some serious dough and face reliability issues if you want to be 'reliably' competitive. With the money it will take, there are other platforms that will take a lot less time (for the same money) to keep them on the track. I see a lot of road course guys get frustrated and go to GT3s, as you spend the same money keeping a Subaru intact and far more often need to winch it onto the trailer at the end of the day.

I love these cars, but knowing where their natural capabilities lie will save you some serious money and frustration.
 
#9 ·
I do not HAVE have a Subaru....I only figured thats what a lot of guys run, so it must be good.

What are some of the other platforms that you speak of?

GT3 money is not only large to start, but Porsche motorsport consumables are ridiculous and for that speed/money, Id rather go with a C6 Corvette.

Are Evos easier/cheaper to make fast?
 
#8 ·
Another point:

A friend of mine used to have an Evo9 and he won Clubsprint AND Open class of WTAC with it. He eventually sold the car and now runs a manual Evo X, simple 450-480whp build. Not as fast as the Evo 9 but he drives to track and back. Talking to him, he said he learnt from his mistakes.

There is a lesson in there for all of us.
 
#11 ·
DK are you on the book of faces? Ask this question on the Global Time Attack Page/Group or Track Subies or Track Midwest ( where a bunch of Gridlife members congregate ). Put on your big boy pants as they don’t hold back. Good responses here, but you need to see the World view. Also there is the Time Attack Builders Group over there. See also what the WTAC guys are doing, join there group.
 
#20 ·
Evo X manual, mild tuned 400 to 450whp is my bet. However, you can still make a STI do the same, with a perfect tune, extensive monitoring and maintenance (which you would for the Evo also).

However, at that power level you willnot win GTA, SLB, WTAC.

You will find out GTA/SLB front runners in street class who run Subarus, go throught a large number of motors reasonably regularly. However, they can testify themselves.

I can tell you though, I run WTAC and I would like to think I a front runner. My impression is: it is NOT CHEAP. Essentially a high strung 500whp+ 4 cyl STI or Evo would not run for more than a few seasons before engine rebuilds as a minimum.
 
#22 ·
I'd be surprised anyone expected more! A few seasons cool!
 
#31 ·
There is just not enough data for road course yet. They have oil temp issues based on what I hear. They get hot and dont cool down easily. At this stage I prefer two oem casting engines to one expensive billet.

SJ1000 was very fast in Subinats but it did a lot less laps than CMA car at similarish power. And on their high boost run I was chasing it. It was spraying fluid all over the place.

4 door, simple set up that is competitive is hard. As street class is very fast these days. IAG cars are all in 500whp plus. In WTAC you need atleast 650hp...
A 400 to 450 whp evo or sti will be reasonably reliable but competitive? Maybe not. Specially as uou say you dont want yo put JRZ in it.

M235 will be even worse imo. As you pay BMW premium.

Maybe modify the C5 to fit TA too?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
Having been dealing with the 1,000+ hp drag stuff, as a tuner, in the last year and seeing the stuff they make fail (on stronger than Subaru motors), I can't imagine the billet block is worth it over having a few spare short blocks on a moderately powered, road course Subaru.

In my opinion, if you need to step to that type of block (referencing cost), it's time to start looking into better platforms.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Corvette, S2000, Camaro, etc. Something that makes good power without wringing it out, has a proven platform, and available parts at decent cost. Although Porsche is a fantastic car, it can't meet the cost criteria.

That said, an STi can be made "reliable", but you have to have realistic expectations. A properly setup "Stage 2" STi with E85 and head studs can be fast, if you can drive, and last (address cooling, etc), but as not competitive at higher levels. Now if you class yourself competitively for something like NASA, it could pay off... If you can drive.

I personally prefer more track time over power. It's amazing how fast you can actually get when you stop focusing on "more power".
 
#27 ·
ARe: Best gen STI for time attack

Good info!


Correct about the S2000. Great platform and I was one of the first roadracing it (1st win in NASA and in SCCA). We won something like 27 races out of 31 and the engine was basically stock with a few internal and bolt on mods. Reliable, only one dnf I think because of the diff.

We decided to get anFRS, thinking its a more modern S2000, much more expnsive build, super strong engine 500ish at the wheels with a Rotrex (we did the prototyping work for Jackson Racing), but the car was nver competitive I feel.
We won some events, but given the amount of mods, I feel he car under performed.
I never likd the balance of the car, it always washed out in the low speed, technical stuff and even with the c38, it still didnt have the torque out of the turns that turbo cars had. It had plnty of boost when you got sideways at 110mph though?.

So even though I really like time attack, my strong suite is still racecraft and thats why Im building C5

So my desire to build a time attack car (sedan ideally) is to have a decent car with reasonable mods that is still somewhat competitive.
Im not interested in putting on JRZs or getting a fully built motor.
It needs to be competitive in a more stock like class.

So, Im all ears with respect to Evos, and any other platform.

D
 
#34 ·
I wouldn't say they can be made to handle like a RWD car. They can be made to make the rear end toss-able, but it's still got the two front wheels pulling the car. Now... You can make the STi RWD...

If you take time to address aero, you can extract heat from the engine bay and a TMIC. Some insulation helps as well.
 
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