Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision - Page 8 - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com
STI Forum
Join
Start New Thread Create Account Advertise FAQ Members List Contact
Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision
Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision
Go Back   STI Forums > > > > Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-15, 11:30 AM   #71
jaboyd
Advanced Mastery Level I
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
Car: 2011 STI WR blue
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
jaboyd will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Thanks for the feedback. By the way I always wondered where "Happy existence" was located...now I know it's in NE. I previously lived in NH and PA so I'm somewhat familiar with the driving options in the region....love those backroads!

I may be coming up to NE in the Fall so be careful what you offer...I might just stop by. Seriously, if you can make it to TN to drive the Tail of the Dragon and numerous other fantastic roads, I would love to host you, and family, for a great time in one of the best states for scenic driving and good roads. Actually the ones I enjoy most are in east TN, western NC and northern GA.

I recently did a comparison and write up on my experiment with a 22mm and 21mm rear bar setting. Look at today's posting on this thread:RCE T2 settings?. What you'll see is that I fully endorse your 2mm dia difference and the softer 21 bar settings for aggressive street or possibly track use with my setup...although I haven't tried them on a track.

Last edited by jaboyd; 03-29-15 at 11:43 AM.
jaboyd is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-01-15, 10:54 AM   #72
CygnusPerformance
Advanced Mastery Level IV
Feedback Score: 151 reviews
 
Car: 13PBP STi, 07STi LTD
Fav Mod: Super Pro Duroball LCA Bushings, Cygnus Performance X-1 Coilovers & Tactrix Openport 2.0
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: cygnusperformance.com
CygnusPerformance will become famous soon enoughCygnusPerformance will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toivonen View Post
That said with my STi being a pretty hard core track car that pretends to have some DD potential, I am up to 8k/8k, soon 8k/9k upping rear because 22/22 sways are too much. The front sway is seto to soft or 22mm, but the rear sway at 21 is just too much. Since this setup is so much faster than stock, you corner faster, and you roll just as much due to higher speeds. Matter o' fact the fastest autocross and track STi's have very stiff springs, but very soft sways as per Geoff of Cyngusperformance.

That is not exactly what I said. The quickest cars at autocross have soft front bars, stiff rears, stiff coilovers. The fastest cars at the track have stiff bars front and rear, stiff coilovers. Either way, all of the quickest GR STi's that I am aware of have a sway upgrade of some kind. To avoid posting another wall of text I will link to this post for a complete explanation:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141517-post10.html


Thanks,
Geoff

Last edited by CygnusPerformance; 05-02-15 at 11:53 AM.
CygnusPerformance is offline  
Likes 2 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-15, 12:50 PM   #73
Toivonen
Super Moderator
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Car: 2013 STi Hatch
Fav Mod: Wicked Performance Group, Killer B stuff, RCE 3w Clubsport Coilovers, 13:1 rack, alignment, bushings
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: A Happy Existence
Toivonen will become famous soon enoughToivonen will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by CygnusPerformance View Post
That is not exactly what I said. The quickest cars at autocross have soft front bars, stiff rears, stiff coilovers. The fastest cars at the track have stiff bars front and rear, stiff coilovers. Either way, all of the quickest GR STi's that I am aware of have a sway upgrade of some kind. To avoid posting another wall of text I will link to this post for a complete explanation:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141517-post10.html


Thanks,
Geoff
That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
Toivonen is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-13-15, 02:18 PM   #74
CygnusPerformance
Advanced Mastery Level IV
Feedback Score: 151 reviews
 
Car: 13PBP STi, 07STi LTD
Fav Mod: Super Pro Duroball LCA Bushings, Cygnus Performance X-1 Coilovers & Tactrix Openport 2.0
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: cygnusperformance.com
CygnusPerformance will become famous soon enoughCygnusPerformance will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toivonen View Post
That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
I don't like posting anything too negative or critical on the forums. I try my best to keep things as productive as possible, but when inaccurate information gets posted in this thread I feel the responsibility to address it. I know first hand that this thread has served many people well, and it is my hope that it will continue to do so. Here is my response:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4145756-post18.html

It's nothing personal, but it is all of the facts laid out as I see them. Unless there is some major development I will just leave it at that and hopefully we can get back on topic here.

Thanks,
Geoff
CygnusPerformance is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-15, 04:31 PM   #75
jaboyd
Advanced Mastery Level I
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
Car: 2011 STI WR blue
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
jaboyd will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toivonen View Post
That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
Subarus are a somewhat unique beast when it comes to the suspension and its affect on handling. However, for non-autox, the basics are that when going to stiffer springs you'll need stiffer sway bars bc the given displacement of the higher rated spring is less for a given input/roll. Yes as you go faster even the higher rated springs will depress and possibly equally or more than when taken at a lower speed with the oem spring/swaybar. IMO increasing the spring rate while keeping the same swaybar may result in an actual wheel rate lower than the calculated wheel rate which assumes a static or set displacement distance.

With all of the suspension/chassis mods you've done you have a setup that provides much faster wt transfer and substantially more roll resistance. I can understand a near stock front swaybar size for autox combined with very aggressive front camber and 8k spring to give you grip. I'm guessing that a stock rear bar size with an a 9k spring basically eliminates oversteer by allowing more rear roll/better tire grip/less tire shock...but surprised that a 20mm bar would have made a huge difference in your handling vs a 19mm. For autox I would have thought that having a little oversteer would have been highly desirable.

Damping can have a big impact on the rate of pitch/roll, so I was wondering how much rebound damping you run frt/rr to match up with your springs and bars?
jaboyd is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-15, 06:13 PM   #76
Toivonen
Super Moderator
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Car: 2013 STi Hatch
Fav Mod: Wicked Performance Group, Killer B stuff, RCE 3w Clubsport Coilovers, 13:1 rack, alignment, bushings
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: A Happy Existence
Toivonen will become famous soon enoughToivonen will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaboyd View Post
Subarus are a somewhat unique beast when it comes to the suspension and its affect on handling. However, for non-autox, the basics are that when going to stiffer springs you'll need stiffer sway bars bc the given displacement of the higher rated spring is less for a given input/roll. Yes as you go faster even the higher rated springs will depress and possibly equally or more than when taken at a lower speed with the oem spring/swaybar. IMO increasing the spring rate while keeping the same swaybar may result in an actual wheel rate lower than the calculated wheel rate which assumes a static or set displacement distance.

With all of the suspension/chassis mods you've done you have a setup that provides much faster wt transfer and substantially more roll resistance. I can understand a near stock front swaybar size for autox combined with very aggressive front camber and 8k spring to give you grip. I'm guessing that a stock rear bar size with an a 9k spring basically eliminates oversteer by allowing more rear roll/better tire grip/less tire shock...but surprised that a 20mm bar would have made a huge difference in your handling vs a 19mm. For autox I would have thought that having a little oversteer would have been highly desirable.

Damping can have a big impact on the rate of pitch/roll, so I was wondering how much rebound damping you run frt/rr to match up with your springs and bars?
I found with the softer bars I can add more power earlier in a corner actually.

Keep in mind I have -3.4' of front camber and about 7.7' of caster, both of which are not the best for high speed stability. Indeed at 20mm rear the car was scary to drive on the highway and I still could not apply as much power as soon as I would have liked.

My dampers are full stiff front (but I have 8k springs and they were originally valved for 6k) and 3 clicks from full soft in the rear on 9k springs (originally valved for 7k springs). With the stock sways, this is truly the best setup I've tried, *extremely* stable at high speed, able to rotate on demand in corner entry, mostly neutral with a slight bit of push that can be eliminated with driving style, and able to accelerate early, hard and often.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that with the full swaybar upgrades, there are more to be done in the rear (there is a Whiteline swaybar brace as well as some Cusco bracing to connect into the rear subframe). So whatever you are running, if you do all the mods even on the stock sways the rear stiffness and thus wheel rate contributions from the swaybar is a little bit more and that has to be accounted for. Again this plus the aggressive alignment requires stiffness to be taken away in other ways from the rear and possibly added to the front.

Criticisms from Geoff are well taken, we are all here to learn, but of everything I've tried on stock springs as well as high end coilovers and fairly stiff everything, the best setup allows for a bit more body roll and keeping the stock sways. Some roll isn't a bad thing necessarily and helps keep more natural weight transfer and in many cases better grip!

GR Coilovers

I would highly recommend Geoff, but instead of asking to buy swaybars, start with drivline bushings and/or his stage X steering upgrades along with a performance alignment. If anything before stiffening the suspension you will have to deal with less driveline, chassis and steering flop that takes away and absorbs some of the stiffness you are trying to add.
Toivonen is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-15, 07:03 PM   #77
jaboyd
Advanced Mastery Level I
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
Car: 2011 STI WR blue
My Subaru Parts for sale

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
jaboyd will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toivonen View Post
I found with the softer bars I can add more power earlier in a corner actually.

Keep in mind I have -3.4' of front camber and about 7.7' of caster, both of which are not the best for high speed stability. Indeed at 20mm rear the car was scary to drive on the highway and I still could not apply as much power as soon as I would have liked.

My dampers are full stiff front (but I have 8k springs and they were originally valved for 6k) and 3 clicks from full soft in the rear on 9k springs (originally valved for 7k springs). With the stock sways, this is truly the best setup I've tried, *extremely* stable at high speed, able to rotate on demand in corner entry, mostly neutral with a slight bit of push that can be eliminated with driving style, and able to accelerate early, hard and often.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that with the full swaybar upgrades, there are more to be done in the rear (there is a Whiteline swaybar brace as well as some Cusco bracing to connect into the rear subframe). So whatever you are running, if you do all the mods even on the stock sways the rear stiffness and thus wheel rate contributions from the swaybar is a little bit more and that has to be accounted for. Again this plus the aggressive alignment requires stiffness to be taken away in other ways from the rear and possibly added to the front.

Criticisms from Geoff are well taken, we are all here to learn, but of everything I've tried on stock springs as well as high end coilovers and fairly stiff everything, the best setup allows for a bit more body roll and keeping the stock sways. Some roll isn't a bad thing necessarily and helps keep more natural weight transfer and in many cases better grip!

GR Coilovers

I would highly recommend Geoff, but instead of asking to buy swaybars, start with drivline bushings and/or his stage X steering upgrades along with a performance alignment. If anything before stiffening the suspension you will have to deal with less driveline, chassis and steering flop that takes away and absorbs some of the stiffness you are trying to add.
The front valving makes sense but wouldn't a click or 2 more rear rebound eliminate the push you're getting without creating lift?
jaboyd is offline  
Likes 0 Dislikes 0
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suspension/Stiffening Swaybars & Endlinks - New 2013 Revision CygnusPerformance GD-General 19 04-02-14 01:55 PM
Who has RCE swaybars and Kartboy endlinks? GeneralTsou GR-Suspension, Handling, Stiffening 26 06-12-13 03:08 AM
SOLD: Whiteline Adjustable 24mm F+R Swaybars + KARTBOY ENDLINKS Boris Suspension/Stiffening Parts For Sale 13 02-16-13 06:58 AM
SOLD: Front/rear Whiteline swaybars, new KB front/rear endlinks - 08+ STI shu Suspension/Stiffening Parts For Sale 0 08-02-11 12:15 PM
FS DE: 2006 STI F/R swaybars & endlinks AlxSTI Suspension/Stiffening Parts For Sale 3 03-20-09 09:55 AM


New To Site? Need Help? More

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Designed & Powered by Domain Architect
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.