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Baron's '05 STi journal - **Carbon bits installed**
Baron's '05 STi journal - **Carbon bits installed**
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Old 10-13-16, 06:53 PM   #701
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOBeefdip View Post
Yes, it's odd how the reason has changed.

This is what I was getting at, that others have built with no leaks/drips. No instructions with the gaskets. I did just get off the phone with someone from JE directly who said most likely, heat cycling is recommended. He's going to call me back once he talks with the team.

I'm just torn at this point.

farmboss, yes I'm doing it myself using ARP's torque values and sequence:

-------3------1------6
Front
-------5------2------4

3 equal steps to 90: 30-60-90, check 24hrs later for torque hold, torque center two to 100ft-lbs.
Dam, your doing it that way. I had high hopes for that method but with the motors I've worked on I went by the book with the whole loosening back up of a couple to un-do the bind and haven't had a problem.

I figured the 30-60-90 would work. Probably does, you just got a freak situation going on or something. Or maybe that heat cycle thing is true. But if so, im glad i now know not to get those type of gaskets.
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Old 10-13-16, 07:02 PM   #702
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Have you started the car to see if coolant shoots out?
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Old 10-14-16, 05:24 AM   #703
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

That's the OEM method for when you're using TTY head bolts. The design and strength of ARP stud's don't require that be done. I don't think it's a gasket issue; these are being used on builds with way higher cylinder pressures than mine. No, I have not fired the motor. I don't believe coolant is going to shoot out, but I also am not confident that the leaks will seal.

That said, here's the response I got just a few minutes ago:
Gavin,

At this point we have given you a course of action and you are refusing to take it. There’s nothing to lose by starting the car. Worst case scenario it will leak coolant, which it’s already doing.

We’re still 100% confident that starting, heat cycling, and driving the vehicle will resolve the situation.

We have built over 1,000 short blocks in 2016, over 250 of those were built with used/seasoned case halves and have not had this issue when proper procedure was followed.

I’ll reiterate, you need to start the car and heat cycle the engine.

Let us know if we can help in any other way.

Thank you, Keith
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Old 10-14-16, 06:33 AM   #704
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

They were also confident that the prior head finish was what was causing the leaking and never made any mention of heat cycling gaskets.

I say try it, let it leak, then tell them to suck start a shotgun. Even the gasket manufacturer doesn't agree. I couldn't find anything pointing to this being a method on these gaskets.

Next time you e-mail them, ask to speak with someone other than Keith.
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Last edited by yamahaSHO; 10-14-16 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 10-14-16, 06:52 AM   #705
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Indeed, true.

Fair enough. Although the main motive behind all this was to build a stout and stronger motor so that I could have a bit of enjoyment and not be worried about the regular Subaru issues in the back of my mind. Lowering the chance of failure as it were. That seems moot now.

Part of me is thinking to just pull it out one more time and re-do torque to put that to bed. No?

This email chain has had [email protected] and the rest of the sales team cc'd the whole time. So it would seem they are supporting what he says. I'll play ball this time, but at least this is all on record.
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Old 10-14-16, 07:12 AM   #706
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Make sure to record it (in 1080p please ), so you can show us how your floor gets spilled with coolant
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Old 10-14-16, 07:59 AM   #707
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

I've been pretty busy the last few weeks, need to catch up on a few things (your build, Jason's house and Ben's Time Attack event being some of them!).

EDIT

I stand corrected - see post # 727.

Last edited by Kyle_05_STi; 10-18-16 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 10-14-16, 09:07 AM   #708
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOBeefdip View Post
That's the OEM method for when you're using TTY head bolts. The design and strength of ARP stud's don't require that be done. I don't think it's a gasket issue; these are being used on builds with way higher cylinder pressures than mine. No, I have not fired the motor. I don't believe coolant is going to shoot out, but I also am not confident that the leaks will seal.

That said, here's the response I got just a few minutes ago:
Gavin,

At this point we have given you a course of action and you are refusing to take it. Thereís nothing to lose by starting the car. Worst case scenario it will leak coolant, which itís already doing.

Weíre still 100% confident that starting, heat cycling, and driving the vehicle will resolve the situation.

We have built over 1,000 short blocks in 2016, over 250 of those were built with used/seasoned case halves and have not had this issue when proper procedure was followed.

Iíll reiterate, you need to start the car and heat cycle the engine.

Let us know if we can help in any other way.

Thank you, Keith
Nothing to lose by starting the car?! Water in the cylinders causing scoring and possibly even hydrolocking comes to mind. I have the regular ARP studs and OEM gaskets and just did 30-60-90 in factory sequence. No issues yet. Sucks that you're having so many problems.
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Old 10-14-16, 09:21 AM   #709
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

I imagine the cylinders are sealing okay, but it's always a consideration.
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Old 10-14-16, 09:41 AM   #710
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Default Re: Baron's '05 STi journal - **Motor is back in again**

Guys,

A few points that I want to address, as this thread was brought to my attention and I was able to catch up on the email chain this morning.

1. As Keith stated, our position is that heat cycling DOES have an impact on these gaskets, as we have discovered on several cars here in house recently over the last 3 weeks or so. This theory has been proven out in our facility, using setups extremely similar to Gavins, and heat cycling has been key to sealing. As a matter of fact, our stance on this position was developed by testing, as previous to our discovery, I/we would have agreed with the stances that many have shared within the last few posts about the subject.

2. Bead blasting the heads will ABSOLUTELY cause a sealing issue, and the heads ABSOLUTELY needed to be decked, no question. While there is a sealing issue at this point in time, it does not dismiss the fact that this procedure needed to take place.

3. We did not torque these head studs, and obviously there are questions about torquing procedure, etc. even being discuss right now in this very thread, a few posts up.

4. IF there is an issue with the block, as with anything else that we offer, we will ABSOLUTELY stand behind our work, and will be completely open and transparent with Gavin should the engine need to come in to us.

Like any other client who chooses our blocks, machine work, etc. we value Gavin as a customer, and obviously would prefer that this situation be resolved as quickly and effectively as possible for him.

Gavin,

I have been following, and would like for you to heat cycle and test as Keith has suggested and report back to us. Hopefully the situation is resolved as we suspect. If that is not the case, then let me/us know, and I'd like to get everything on the way in so that we can figure out exactly why there might still be an issue, and of course IF IAG is responsible for a problem, we will stand behind our work all the way, and will ask that you please not advise that Keith suck on a shotgun as yamahaSHO has suggested...

On that note, obviously (yamahaSHO) I can see that you have some beef with an employee here (and from what I gather, a former friend). I apologize that you gentleman have experienced a disagreement that has left you bitter or displeased, but this business is filled with employees, including Keith, who care VERY much about the best interests of our customers, and want this situation to be resolved by any means necessary. We certainly don't want this to be happening any more than Gavin, as this type of banter is certainly counterproductive for all of us, and at the end of the day, we want Gavin to be enjoying his car and not experiencing these issues any more than he wants to be experiencing them...

It is unlikely that I will have time to continue in this thread, but if anyone wants to discuss ANYTHING going on in this thread with me directly, I can be reached at [email protected]

Have a great weekend everyone, and Gavin, we'll await to hear from you and look forward to resolution.

Kind Regards,

Rick
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