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Sway bars on Stock springs
Sway bars on Stock springs
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Old 05-20-08, 05:55 AM   #1
psuLemon
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Default Sway bars on Stock springs

Let me begin by saying, I have JDM spec-C spring's on my car (10% stiffer than stock and about 5MM lower) when I bought the car. I always hear arguements to buy sways but the question comes down to should you put them on stock springs? I have talked to clint about it and RCE and both say that it is more benefial and better for your car to get them after you do springs. Now I know 27MM upfront and 24-26MM in the rear would be a really bad match to the stock springs. So I thought I would gather peoples opinions or analysis to say if the load capacity would be ok. I eventually plan on getting some RCE yellow or maybe blacks (haven't decided) and possible some of the new RCE bars. I don't track my car, but want to start. So what does everyone think?
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Old 05-20-08, 06:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

I like the 27-29mm front bar with 22-26mm rear bar on a stock strut/spring STi a lot since you can't get enough roll stiffness out of the front without a bar and just springs alone. As spring rate goes up, I've needed less front bar, but for those low rates that most of the springs on the market give, I like that big front bar.

It depends on what you want to do with your car. Daily driver-only, I'd recommend smaller, midrange bars and as close as possible to stock ride height lowering springs or even better, lowering camber plates with the stock springs.

For autox, get the biggest front bar you can, biggest rubber, and as much negative camber up front as a plate can go.
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Old 05-20-08, 06:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

Yes, sway bars are extremely beneficial on stock springs, but I didn't like the 27/24 combo. I'd recommend 24mm front and rear. For a car that I knew would stay on stock springs, I'd even be tempted to run 22mm front and 24mm rear.
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Old 05-20-08, 06:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

I had the Cusco 22mm up front on my car with the cusco 22-24mm bar out back on stock struts/springs for a few months. maxed the camber out on the stock bolt, -1. rear bar set to full stiff, so it was 24mm.

front rolled too much, car needed more negative camber, but the 22 vs. stock wasn't effective above ~40 mph through slaloms. Was sloppy up front.
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Old 05-20-08, 06:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

There may have been roll, but wasn't the car balanced? That's more important both in making driving fun (IMO) and being fast. I feel the car is better balanced on stock springs with a stock front and 24mm rear than it is with equal sized bars (and way better than the 27/24 combo), but I think 24mm front and rear is a decent middle-ground. With the two 24mm bars, I'd probably put the front on soft and the rear on stiff, but I haven't actually tried that specific setup on stock springs.

Racecomp's 25mm bars (front and rear) would also be good, whenever those get released. For those, I think I'd use the soft setting up front and middle setting in the rear, since they are spec'd more accurately than Whiteline's bars. Whiteline's 24mm rear bar has a longer arm-length than stock even in the middle setting, so it's not really a 24mm equivalent there yet.

Last edited by stretch; 05-20-08 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 05-20-08, 06:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch View Post
There may have been roll, but wasn't the car balanced? That's more important both in making driving fun (IMO) and being fast. I feel the car is better balanced on stock springs with a stock front and 24mm rear than it is with equal sized bars (and way better than the 27/24 combo), but I think 24mm front and rear is a decent middle-ground.
balanced towards severe understeer up front, oversteer out back.

more negative camber was definitely needed, but that bar mismatch created an odd feeling up front...rear stiffly coming out, front plowing and rolling.
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Old 05-20-08, 06:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

^^^ I don't understand. You can't have oversteer and understeer at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.

Oversteer = higher slip angle in the rear than front.
Understeer = higher slip angle in the front than rear.

The whole point of the stiffer rear bar is to create that oversteer on turn-in so that the front does not plow. Plowing is exactly the behavior I got with the large front bar; that and a lot of very fast tire wear due to the increased stress on the front tires. The stiffer front bar was easier to drive, but also more frustrating since the car wouldn't dance and react the way I wanted. The car always pointed where I wanted with just the rear sway bar, even though it had more body roll.

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Old 05-20-08, 06:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch View Post
^^^ I don't understand. You can't have oversteer and understeer at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.

Oversteer = higher slip angle in the rear than front.
Understeer = higher slip angle in the front than rear.

The whole point of the stiffer rear bar is to create that oversteer on turn-in so that the front does not plow. Plowing is exactly the behavior I got with the large front bar; that and a lot of very fast tire wear due to the increased stress on the front tires. The stiffer front bar was easier to drive, but also more frustrating since the car wouldn't dance and react the way I wanted.
The fronts would slide in and the rear would slide out in the opposite direction. It'd be oversteer to me if the front maintained grip, but it didn't. Probably due to lack of negative camber, since the front needs a decent bit to not push. Couple it in with the flopping around and I didn't like the combo much at all.

We've got different driving preferences then. I don't like a car that dances and requires lots of input to keep it straight. I want something that sticks to where I point it.

What Ive found between the two bars is that the bigger bar keeps the car flatter through turns and at higher speeds, but without enough negative camber (over 2.5), it'll plow at the limit easier than the smaller bar. Biggest thing is when it plows with the big bar, it isn't rolling at the same time, which I greatly prefer.

FWIW, I think most autocrossers out there like the big bars, too. From a daily driver perspective, I didn't find the 27mm to be too intrusive with a decent alignment.
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Old 05-20-08, 09:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sway bars on Stock springs

i've been running the 27-29 up front and the 24-26 in the rear with and without lowering springs and my car felt a little more balanced when the aftermarket springs were on it rather than the stock springs. It's still a very stiff ride for reducing body roll but to the point where it may be too much (some turns I feel like the car wants to continue forward more than it wants to turn.)
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