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Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean
Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean
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Old 07-22-18, 12:37 AM   #1
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Unhappy Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Hello everyone,

Looking for some advice here.. got my car rebuilt recently at Outfront Motorsports in Buena Park, CA with a stock shortblock assembly.

It's got a few bolt-on parts which needed a basemap for break-in procedure.

The tuner is Ron from Phatbotti Tuning in Anaheim, CA. He's instructed me to take a datalog to review the engine's state. He states that the car has a vacuum leak or a fueling issue which is leaning out the motor, having too much +AF correction %.

Since then, the car's had a smoke-test with no visible leaks and a fuel pressure test which read nominal. Outfront believes the car is fine?

Only thing I can think of is a bad throttle body or MAF sensor? I remember hearing ticking noises while cleaning the throttle body and gave it a shake. Should I start by replacing the throttle body?

For those of you who are more aware of the tuning side, what do you think of the map and datalog? Link attached!

*Parts list for power:
-Catless bell-mouth downpipe + cbe
-Cobb EBCS
-Cobb AP V3
-Perrin Turbo inlet (2.4" stock size) + elbow piece for intake box.
-Stock rebuilt turbo
-Grimmspeed AOS (which isn't known to be an issue in this case..?)

Thank you!

basemap and datalog

Last edited by dadan903; 07-22-18 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 07-22-18, 07:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

A throttle body does not lean out the air:fuel mixture. Where did you connect for you boost leak test?

I can view the logs on my phone, but I will look later on a computer.
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Old 07-23-18, 11:03 AM   #3
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

yamahaSHO would know better than i, but i think you want your AFR in the ~11 range.. On my 07, AFR flatlined at 11.01 and with my 2017 flatlines at 11.03 with the cobb stage 2 OTS.
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Old 07-23-18, 12:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.amazon.com/Modify-Management-Systems-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760315825/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271007538&sr=1-2
14.68:1 (~14.7:1) Stoichiometric mix
12.80:1 - Lean best torque
12.20:1 - Mean best torque
11.76:1 - Rich best torque
11.01:1 - Fastest flame speed in cylinder
lifted from a romraider post that was lifted from How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems (Motorbooks Workshop): Jeff Hartman: 9780760315828: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 07-23-18, 02:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Just offhand it's not a very good data set. You never got WOT, you have a very limited RPM range and you don't have boost in the data.

Just do a 4th gear pull to redline at WOT if you want to know if you are lean and log boost!
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Old 07-23-18, 03:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Eh, if you suspect being lean, I'd start with a good 2nd gear log... You're far less likely to have issues if the motor is running improperly.
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Old 07-23-18, 03:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

I agree but I don't think there's any evidence he is lean. And actually re-reading the original post he's only concerned with closed loop operations and STFT and LTFT. Anyway your approach is certainly safer if the driver has no feedback on A/F during the pull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
Eh, if you suspect being lean, I'd start with a good 2nd gear log... You're far less likely to have issues if the motor is running improperly.
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Old 07-24-18, 11:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
A throttle body does not lean out the air:fuel mixture. Where did you connect for you boost leak test?

Outfront Motorsports said they connected into some of the vacuum lines leading off the turbo inlet and a couple of other places i don't recall specifically.. they said no signs with a smoke test. Fuel pressure test came back nominal as well.

I can view the logs on my phone, but I will look later on a computer.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Just offhand it's not a very good data set. You never got WOT, you have a very limited RPM range and you don't have boost in the data.

Just do a 4th gear pull to redline at WOT if you want to know if you are lean and log boost!
The builders said not to go past 4500rpm during the break-in period. The motor currently has 250'ish miles. The tuner thinks it's running lean based on my "cruising speeds" as per instruction. I hit about ~8 or 9lbs of boost? AFR definitely not looking lower than 12 atm... I will do a new log otw and back from work tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I agree but I don't think there's any evidence he is lean. And actually re-reading the original post he's only concerned with closed loop operations and STFT and LTFT. Anyway your approach is certainly safer if the driver has no feedback on A/F during the pull.
Update: The mounting points for MAF sensor on stock intake box was over-torqued and broken... Whomever installed it back into the car must have used an electric drill? Got a new piece and installed today. Will make new logs tomorrow, as of now AFR's don't seem to be any lower than ~12 for low boost from 8~10lbs. The motor seems to hesitate when shifting through gears under low boost and throttle input, almost felt like timing getting pulled but didn't see any fb knock or fine knock learn

thanks everyone for your input! check back for a new datalog soon
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Old 07-25-18, 06:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadan903 View Post
Update: The mounting points for MAF sensor on stock intake box was over-torqued and broken... Whomever installed it back into the car must have used an electric drill? Got a new piece and installed today. Will make new logs tomorrow, as of now AFR's don't seem to be any lower than ~12 for low boost from 8~10lbs. The motor seems to hesitate when shifting through gears under low boost and throttle input, almost felt like timing getting pulled but didn't see any fb knock or fine knock learn
An incompetent shop, you don't say?
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Old 07-27-18, 08:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Does this basemap look good? Tuner says it's running lean

Wow, I was so careful with the MAF as it has JIS screws and was scared as shit of stripping them when cleaning the MAF. I cant believe they didn't strip if it was able to crack the mounting.
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