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S209 Driving Impressions will be out Today...........

Thoughts/Review/Comparison 
95K views 487 replies 50 participants last post by  S2000_Europe 
#1 ·
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#53 ·
It was well said on the other forum...

Subaru themselves were unsure what to call it and almost named it the 25B :lol:

Jalopnik said:
There was a branded plaque on the center console below the shifter, just like normal, but instead of reading “S209,” the plaque on this test mule read “25B.”

Yes, that’s right. 25B. You know... like the ultra-legendary, supercar-beating Subaru 22B from the late ‘90s.

When asked about the mismatch, Subaru explained that it considered giving the “25B” name to the new model, but felt it would be more appropriate to stick with the S-line naming scheme. Subaru North American business planner Yoshihide Yano seemed a bit frazzled when we noticed the strange plaque, but he explained the decision stemmed from higher-ups who were concerned about how the car would be sold in America.

“[Subaru] executives discussed [what] this car should be called...because it’s the first U.S. car [from STI],” Subaru North American business planner Yano told Jalopnik.

Yano wouldn’t explain deeper than that on why the company shied away from the “25B” branding, except for explaining that it was what Subaru used for internal development purposes.

Subaru spokesman Ron Kiino added some clarity in a followup email.

“Given the history of STI’s limited-edition models (22B followed by S201 through S208), it simply made sense to name the next car in sequence the S209 – especially since the car is US only and US-based STI fans have been clamoring for an S model for years,” Kiino told Jalopnik in an email.

So does this all mean the S209 is the spiritual successor to the 22B—the one true Subaru god? Sure. Maybe. Subaru at least thinks so, or did, just not enough to tell it to Americans.

The Subaru WRX STI S209 Was Almost Called the 25B
It's certainly not 22B legendary for the time period.. and Type RA-R wouldn't have sounded as appealing to the consumer even if it's more appropriate.

Subaru's main goal was to come up with a name for marketing that will help sell a $60-70k special edition Subaru in the US. The S209 name will help Subaru charge the most for the car without tarnishing the 22B legacy.

Maybe S251 would have been more appropriate? Indicating that it was the 1st 2.5L S series for the US market. This could have distinguished it from its JDM counterpart and not set such high expectations for it to be improved successor of the S208. Granted.. Subaru put it on a pedestal advertising that it would have a hand-built engine with forged pistons and then yanking that dream away.

It's great that Subaru is finally giving us an S car in the US, but it's a slightly watered down version of what the S207 & S208 were. But that tends to be the case with the STIs that we get in the US. Sure, it makes more peak power on paper, but there were a lot of missed opportunities for Subaru/STI to make it the best that they have to offer for the EJ's last hurrah.
 
#57 · (Edited)
;)I'll never understand. You can buy a used but newish STI and build an actually fast car for that kind on money!!!
 
#58 ·
;)I'll never understand. You can buy a used but newish STI and build an actually fast car for that kind on money maf
Then you would potentially be out of class rules. To some this matters.

Really if you look at any price range you'll find winners and losers. The winners don't always sell the most and the losers are not always the 'worst' cars. I think most rational people strive for a good value (bang-for-the-buck) and the USDM S car is too far from that ideal for a lot of us and that's what we angst over. Without too much of a struggle I (and I'm sure many of you) could come up with 10 cars that are over priced considering their performance specs or standings. They still sell, and many sell well.

Flagship cars are often overpriced undervalued and there are LOTS of examples of this in the car world. In the Subaru world we've not seen it because those cars have not been in our market before so I think we're all caught up in the initial shock of it. How dare Subaru give us a car that bests the RA and expect a exorbitant premium price! :lol:
 
#64 ·
I don't believe so.

"The Bilstein dampers from the Type RA have been revalved and put in use on the S209 along with springs that increase in rate to match the new valving."

The springs are "STI Pink" 10mm lowering springs.
 
#65 · (Edited)
Most people will even complain about the price of a new Miata :lol:

The Miata Club with Recaro/Brembo package starts at $35k. The RF Club with the right options approaches $40k.

New car prices have just gotten ridiculous.

A used Miata is the answer :)
..or my personal favorite.. a KMiata
KMiata.com - Miata K Series Engine Conversions
 
#73 · (Edited)
I don't desire a manual car anymore. DCT's do it so much better and for a sports car, I want it to do sports car things, better. I do like a more refined car these days. A raw car is great, if I were to track it, but a street car... I like it refined and fairly quiet... And not rattle everywhere.

I used to think Subaru was a good bang for buck, but that hasn't been true in quite some time.


I would do the RWD, extended battery. I'm actually considering it after factoring in a lot of things. It would have to be after the shop is up, which now that we have all our surveying in order, should go more quickly.
 
#74 ·
My 19 Forester Sport is refined and amazing, other than that damn CVT, which honestly isn't all that bad @ 18,000 miles I'm just now starting to feel the rubberbanding.
I've decided to ditch my dreams of the S209, I love my 05 just fine, now I gotta just get those blasted headgaskets fixed. LOL
 
#81 · (Edited)
Had a 3 try attempt to stay ahead of my moderately built STI as I was passing this summer. Didn't happen, and I was just getting to my cars sweet spot where I would have left it in the dust. I could tell the driver was quite surprised. Sure an S has more power, but it is heavier too.
 
#82 ·
i wonder with the electric car if we will see work policies that extension cords to charge your car are not permitted lol...or people cutting into industrial solar panels to jack electricity...but tesla is on my to get list, have thought about mazerati, but all in all I would prefer to keep my sti...as long as I can lol, I agree on no car payments, great car, reliable, gun to drive etc!!!!
 
#84 · (Edited)
You know not for nothing, to you all you guys talking about the bmw's benz and tesla, whats your plan for when it breaks? Just because it has a higher price tag, doesnt mean its a more reliable car. Believe me, there will be issues. High voltage cars arent something that anyone and everyone can work on.


Btw when it comes to getting parts for a tesla whether its repairs or body work .......its DEALERSHIP only! Tesla does not sell or manufacture to the outside/aftermarket.


One of good things about owning an sti is the fact that its fairly easy to work on. You dont need diag tools or any fancy stuff to do most jobs on our cars. On top of that, parts are reasonably priced and pretty much available all the time. Im talking about an STi in general, by no means am i backing up the 70K s209 stage 2 sti :lol:
 
#85 ·
For anyone interested, I had actually saved the initial press release.

SUBARU_TECNICA_INTERNATIONAL_UNLEASHES_MOST_POWERFUL_MODEL_EVER_WITH_LIMITED-EDITION_STI_S209.pdf - Google Drive

"Proudly displaying an S209 serial number plate, the enhanced BOXER engine utilizes forged pistons and connecting rods that are both lighter and stronger."

Subaru themselves stated the forged pistons were key to wearing the S badge :lol:

Media Information Subaru Of America, Inc.
One Subaru Drive
Camden, NJ 08103
Main Number: 856-488-8500

CONTACT:
Ron Kiino
(856) 488-3092
rkiino@subaru.com

Jessica Tullman
(310) 352-4400
jtullman@subaru.com

Charles Ballard
(856) 488-8759
cballard@subaru.com

SUBARU TECNICA INTERNATIONAL UNLEASHES MOST POWERFUL MODEL EVER WITH LIMITED-EDITION STI S209
  • Debuts at 2019 North American International Auto Show
  • First-ever STI-crafted S-line performance vehicle sold in the United States
  • Limited production run of around 200 units
  • Available exclusively in the U.S.
  • 341-horsepower (est.) 2.5-liter SUBARU BOXER engine
  • Aggressive new look with wide fenders, front canards and rear wing
  • Performance-focused chassis with flexible strut tower bar and draw stiffeners
  • Exclusive 19 x 9-inch forged BBS® wheels with bespoke Dunlop® SP Sport Maxx® GT600A tires
  • Brembo® brakes with new high-friction pads
  • Available in two exterior colors: World Rally Blue Pearl and Crystal White Pearl
Camden, N.J., Jan 14, 2019 - Subaru Tecnica International (STI), a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corporation,
today introduced the limited-edition STI S209, the first-ever S-line STI product produced exclusively for the U.S. market.
As an S-line product, the STI S209 encompasses upgrades in power, handling, aerodynamics and driver engagement,
and undergoes final assembly in Kiryu, Japan, where it receives engine modifications and bodywork alterations that in
total require it to be homologated for the U.S. by STI; thus, the S209 is considered the first “STI-built” Subaru sold in
the U.S. The S209 carries on a high-performance tradition that dates to STI-built models that were exclusive to the
Japanese domestic market – the 2000 S201 through the 2018 S208.

Designed with a focus on high-performance driving, the S209 draws inspiration and tech transfer from STI’s most
formidable track machine: the WRX STI Nürburgring Challenge racecar, which won the SP3T class at the 2018 24
Hours of Nürburgring, marking the fifth time STI dominated the SP3T class at the grueling endurance race. The S209,
like the Nürburgring Challenge racecar, wears an expanded wide-body exterior treatment, which extends the vehicle’s
overall width to 72.4 inches, or 1.7 inches wider than a standard WRX STI. The bulging fenders accommodate wider
front/rear tracks (+ 0.6 in front/rear) and 265/35 Dunlop® SP Sport Maxx® GT600A summer-only tires wrapped around
lightweight 19 x 9-inch forged BBS alloy wheels. The all-new tires, developed exclusively for the S209 by Dunlop, are a
significant contributor to the car’s tenacious maximum lateral grip of over 1.0 g. Vents on the front fenders provide
additional engine cooling, while vents on the rear fenders rectify air turbulence to reduce drag. Brembo brakes, with
cross-drilled steel rotors and 6-piston monoblock front calipers and 2-piston monoblock rear calipers, provide stout
stopping force, thanks in part to upgraded high-friction pads that deliver improved fade-resistance.

Underneath the S209’s broader body are specially developed Bilstein® dampers, stiffened coil springs, a 20mm rear
stabilizer bar and pillow-type bushings for the front/rear lateral links. The S209 incorporates reinforcements to the front
crossmember and rear subframes and, a la the Nürburgring racecar, a flexible front-strut tower bar and flexible
front/rear draw stiffeners. The flexible tower bar, unlike a conventional rigid bar, is split and joined with a pillow ball joint
in the center to be longitudinally mobile while helping laterally stiffen the body of the car. The result is optimum tire grip
during lateral moments combined with compliant ride during longitudinal moments. Meanwhile, the draw stiffeners apply
tension between the body and cross member to optimize chassis flex, improving stability when cornering and delivering
better ride, handling and steering response. Other Nürburgring racecar tech that trickles down to the S209: front, rear
and side under spoilers; front bumper canards; and carbon-fiber roof panel and rear wing.

A thoroughly reworked version of the legendary EJ25 2.5-liter turbocharged BOXER engine propels the S209.
Featuring an STI turbocharger manufactured by HKS®, the EJ25 serves up an estimated 341 horsepower, thanks in
part to a larger turbine and compressor (up 6 and 8 percent, respectively, compared to WRX STI) as well as maximum
boost pressure that has been increased to 18.0 psi (16.2 psi for WRX STI). Proudly displaying an S209 serial number
plate, the enhanced BOXER engine utilizes forged pistons and connecting rods that are both lighter and stronger.
Midrange torque, too, gets a notable bump, up 10 percent at 3,600 rpm, delivering higher corner exit speeds when
driving on track.

For ultimate driver engagement, the S209 comes exclusively with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission that
routes power to a full-time Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive system with front/rear limited-slip differentials, a Driver
Controlled Center Differential (DCCD), Active Torque Vectoring and Multi-Mode Vehicle Dynamics Control. A
recalibrated SI-Drive system offers three modes: Intelligent (I) for improved fuel economy and smoother power control;
Sport (S) for optimized power balance between response and control; and Sport Sharp (S#) for achieving the best
acceleration times. STI engineers recommend Sport over Sport Sharp for circuit driving, as the less aggressive throttle
map allows for greater driver control.

To feed more air to the EJ25, the S209 uses a high-flow intake system featuring a new intake duct, induction box with
conical air filter, silicone turbo inlet duct and, a nod from the 2004-07 WRX STI, an intercooler water spray system that
lowers intercooler temperature via manually operated steering-wheel paddles. More air demands more fuel, so the
S209 receives a new high-flow fuel pump, larger fuel injectors and an STI-tuned engine control module. High-performance
mufflers deliver 17-percent less airflow resistance while larger hand-polished stainless-steel exhaust tips –
101mm in diameter – deliver aggressive appearance and acoustics.

The S209 receives multiple tweaks to elevate it from other STI sedans. An STI badge replaces the traditional Subaru
star cluster on the center of the D-shape steering wheel, which is wrapped in Ultrasuede® with silver stitching, a
treatment that carries over to the lid of the center console storage box. An S209 serial number badge resides on the
center console, and S209 badges adorn the passenger-side dash and the headrests of the Recaro® front bucket seats,
which feature new silver-hued inserts. Outside, special S209 badges are affixed to the front grille and fenders as well
as the rear decklid.

Only around 200 units of the STI S209 will be built, earmarked exclusively for the U.S. Available exterior color/BBS
wheel combinations will be WR Blue Pearl/gray wheels and Crystal White Pearl/gold wheels. Pricing will be announced
closer to the on-sale date in late 2019.

About Subaru Tecnica International, Inc.
Subaru Tecnica International Inc. (STI), a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corporation of Japan, was established to
undertake the motorsports activities of Subaru. Today STI's core businesses are supplying motorsports base vehicles
and competition parts; planning, tuning and developing Subaru Limited Edition models; planning and selling
accessories; and tuning parts for auto enthusiasts worldwide. Through these operations, STI aims to provide special
satisfaction to its many Subaru fans.

About Subaru of America, Inc.
Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corporation of Japan. Headquartered at a zero-landfill
office in Camden, N.J., the company markets and distributes Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a
network of more than 630 retailers across the United States. All Subaru products are manufactured in zero-landfill
production plants and Subaru of Indiana Automotive, Inc. is the only U.S. automobile production plant to be designated
a backyard wildlife habitat by the National Wildlife Federation. SOA is guided by the Subaru Love Promise,which is the
company’s vision to show love and respect to everyone, and to support its communities and customers nationwide.
Over the past 20 years, SOA has donated more than $120 million to causes the Subaru family cares about, and its
employees have logged more than 40,000 volunteer hours. As a company, Subaru believes it is important to do its part
in making a positive impact in the world because it is the right thing to do.

For additional information visit media.subaru.com. Follow us on Facebook,Twitter,and Instagram.
 
#86 ·
I emailed Subaru about the bad press release URL and they promptly responded. They said to use the new link for the updated version of the press release from September 26th :lol:

Subaru U.S. Media Center

Apologies for this inconvenience--please try using the following link which holds the updated version of the release you are looking for:

Subaru U.S. Media Center

If you have any questions please feel free to reach out to us.
From:
A thoroughly reworked version of the legendary EJ25 2.5-liter turbocharged BOXER engine propels the S209. Featuring an STI turbocharger manufactured by HKS®, the EJ25 serves up an estimated 341 horsepower, thanks in part to a larger turbine and compressor (up 6 and 8 percent, respectively, compared to WRX STI) as well as maximum boost pressure that has been increased to 18.0 psi (16.2 psi for WRX STI). Proudly displaying an S209 serial number plate, the enhanced BOXER engine utilizes forged pistons and connecting rods that are both lighter and stronger. Midrange torque, too, gets a notable bump, up 10 percent at 3,600 rpm, delivering higher corner exit speeds when driving on track.
To:
A reworked version of the legendary EJ25 2.5-liter turbocharged BOXER engine propels the S209. Featuring an STI turbocharger manufactured by HKS®, the EJ25 serves up 341 horsepower at 6,400 rpm, thanks in part to a larger turbine and compressor (up 6 and 8 percent, respectively, compared to WRX STI) as well as maximum boost pressure that has been increased to 18.9 psi (16.2 psi for WRX STI). Proudly displaying an S209 serial number plate, the enhanced BOXER engine also receives a notable bump in midrange torque, 330 lb.-ft. at 3,600 rpm, delivering higher corner exit speeds when driving on track.
The power rating of 341 hp seems to be official now. Note the boost was increased from 18.0 psi to 18.9 psi to achieve this. The S209 certainly seems to have a better powerband with the larger turbo, revised intake/exhaust & tune. Peak power is carried 400 rpm further than the standard STI (310 hp @ 6,000 rpm vs 341 hp @ 6,400 rpm) while peak torque comes on 400 rpm sooner (290 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm vs 330 lb-ft @ 3,600 rpm).

It'll be interesting to compare a Cobb Stage 1 STI vs S209. I'm curious as to:
  • How much of a power difference there is in the mechanical parts versus the tune
  • How far the larger HKS turbo can pushed compared to the VF48
  • If the HKS turbo truly has no low-end torque compromise despite its larger size
The advertised power numbers for the S209 imply that the S209's HKS turbo spools faster and carries power further.. that could be a worthy upgrade.
 
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#88 ·
OK, first thing is, how did this thread get hijacked to the point that we're trying to compare Teslas and Miatas? Second, getting back to the S209, just watched Driving Sports TV's review on YouTube. Interesting point #1, it showed 21psi(!) max boost. And all the chassis bits are interesting, especially the links fore and aft for "pre-tensioning" of the chassis. There's lots more, but he described the whole package pretty well. Still worth 65k or whatever number? To the 209 who get one it probably is.
 
#89 ·
The car will sell, and will sell out fast, but so what? The car itself and its MSRP stand on its own. But the treatment of Subaru to its die hard STI customers by first marketing this as a true S209 and then foregoing the promised forged internals as if nothing happened is down right abhorrent.
 
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