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2020 STi Changes

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52K views 133 replies 37 participants last post by  b18c5rjdm 
#1 · (Edited)
2020 will be the last year for current (VA) gen chassis.
Subaru already released some info on minor changes it will get.
- The front grille of the WRX and WRX STI has been redesigned. Subaru says a plating mall has been added to emphasize the wing motif.
- STI gets newly-designed front fog lamp covers.
- New/redesigned 19-inch aluminum wheels
- New trunk release that works without the key fob and can be opened when all the doors were unlocked
- New Series.white (ceramic white) edition limited to 250 Stis
more info should be released soon...





 
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#55 · (Edited)
Subaru hasn't confirmed a thing, but the S209 is almost certainly our swan song. Subaru knows that they're losing sales at this point, while people wait for a new platform - while it's definitely possible that they will carry it over another year, I think it's more likely that they skip a model year.

Though... I wouldn't ignore the possibility of the new platform coming for the 2022 model year, to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the WRX. Just a thought!

Crazy, if you think about it - the Impreza global platform is now 4 model years old, which means that the global platform will be at least 5 model years old before we see the new STI release... This generation STI only came out 3 model years after the last-gen Impreza.
 
#74 ·
So it looks like nothing will be officially announced in the US for the 2020 model year until next month, unfortunately. I think we know everything about the 2020 already, it’s just a matter of time...

Personally, I’m going to grab a 2019 while they’re still around. I don’t care much for the half-polished wheels on the 2020, and can grab the fog light bezels cheap enough,,,
 
#76 · (Edited)
The RS3 is honestly the absolute perfect car on paper. It's fast as hell, handles pretty well, runs 10's stage 2, etc. It also has one of the best engines, and definitely THE best transmission I've ever used. Absolutely fantastic car in a straight line, better by far than anything else I've owned.

Two problems hold me back from keeping the car - which I actually just traded this weekend for a new car for my wife. First and foremost is Audi. Mods are NOT advisable on this car - at ALL. From the mild - take your car in for anything at all, even a nail in the tire, and they have been instructed to scan your ECU for tunes. If they find anything, your powertrain warranty is officially blacklisted. Granted you can fight that - but it's going to be one hell of a battle, as has been proven my multiple members. Extreme examples included Audi corporate denying warranty claims for transmission shifting issues, because a user had stickier than stock tires on the car. They've gone absolutely mad since they've been paying out for dieselgate.

On the STI, I'm more than happy to take on that liability. Parts are cheap... $3500 for a good built short block if I blow the engine? I'll take on that liability NO problem. $15k for a new 5-cyl in the Audi? That's just the part. Labor is pretty damn high, as you imagine, and vendors quote in the realm of $30k for a built block, installed.

Next on the list is the overall reliability. Electronic systems are REALLY funky on these things - I constantly have electronic nanny sensors alerting, etc. There's a really well-placed IAT sensor in the intake on these engines - directly above the exhaust manifold and turbo. Sit in traffic on a summer day, and get on the gas a bit when it clears up? You're going into limp mode, a solid 50% of the time. It didn't happen to me at all last year after I got the car, but I've had it happen twice so far this year. It sees extreme IATs, and shuts shit down. Just more of Audi's brilliant engineering, honestly, the same stuff we've been seeing since we first got the S4 in the US.

Rattles! The sunroof creaks. CONSTANTLY now. People have had the entire panel replaced 2-3 times, and it still creaks, groans and rattles. Back deck rattles. Door panels rattle. I'm not OK with it in my STI - but again, I'll take on the liability in a sub-$40k car. On a car that MSRP'd over $64k? Not a chance.

Handling of the car is great - but it is NOT on par with the STI. At the end of the day, it handles like a FWD car. Push hard into the corners, regardless of your driving, and it's going to plow. There's a reason it gets left behind on C&D's lightning lap, despite how fast they are. It is NOT a confidence-inspiring car to drive in the twisties, not like the STI is.

Another electronic annoyance is the non-defeatable traction control. You can 'defeat it' by turning it off - but if you manage to get it just right and kick the ass-end out, it will turn it back on for you IMMEDIATELY, while screaming at you with a loud beep.

The car's personality changes with each turn of the key. Sometimes it feels like a rocket. Sometimes it feels slower than my wife's Golf R. It all depends on its mood at the time. It's a weird thing, and I've not heard many people complain about it, but it's definitely a thing. I've started the car up, and on my trip somewhere, it's felt lethargic as hell. Parked, did my thing, drove back 30 minutes later, and it's a monster. No rhyme or reason.

Lastly, gas mileage. I thought I got really bad gas mileage in the STI. I was wrong. My lifetime average on the RS3 was 16.4mpg. I definitely admit that I drive it hard, and I'm willing to accept that - but gas mileage is weird just like power is. I went on a ~35 mile highway drive this weekend - 23mpg average. Did the exact same drive, in the exact same conditions, the very next day? 29mpg. My commute to work - some days I drive it hard and get 16mpg. Some days I drive it hard and get 18mpg. Throw it into comfort some days and I might get 22mpg.... or, in the exact same conditions, with the exact same comfort mode driving, I might get the same 16mpg as when I beat on it. I spent a year trying to figure out if it was something I was doing on my commute, but there were zero variances, as far as I could tell - just the car decided it was more thirsty some days than others.

So, the RS3 left me craving my STI again. Something more analog, where I have a bit more control. Something a bit more rugged, something that I can mod, and something that's made to be driven all the time, instead of only on the autobahn. It's going to take me a bit to get used to how (relatively) slow the STI is, but I welcome it. The STI really is in a class of its own - you can compare it to the S3, Golf R, etc - but none of those cars really are anything like the STI, other than in the general power they produce, and that they have AWD. The STI is, out of 23 cars I've owned, the best driving experience I've had. The most confidence-inspiring, and the most connected I've ever felt to a car, save for maybe one exception on that in the MR2 Spyder.

Would I recommend the RS3 to anyone? Definitely. It was an awesome car! Just be prepared to either accept what the car is out of the box, or the liability of parts that cost literally 5-10x what the same parts on an STI cost. I'm not a 'keep it the way it comes' kind of guy, and I'm just not interested in that kind of financial liability if anything goes wrong, so... Time to go back to my Lego car, the STI. :)

Edit - just to throw one more thought in there - The RS3 always had, for me, an ever-present feeling of a ticking time bomb... Audi is not known for reliability in their top performance cars, so, while they have absolutely improved, it's still an issue. It's caused by the massive over-engineering of every little thing, sometimes with very little gain over the more simplistic part. It's a tough feeling, owning a car like that which can become a liability at any given moment. A bit similar with ringlands/bearings/head gaskets/etc. in the STI, with one huge difference - I can fix that stuff permanently, and still send my kid to college.
 
#77 ·
^ Very informative post.

There were some RS3s that were running mid 10s at 8500 ft DA so it was very impressive. they sounded great too.

my buddy loves Audis, and he has an 2013 A4 currently. while its super nice, and comfortable to drive around, everything is expensive as shit for it. its constantly having random sensor issues and some of the most over-engineered parts I've ever seen.
 
#78 ·
Yeah - EVERYTHING is spendy for that thing, though I fully expected that going in. Development hadn't really gotten there on power for the car yet, so, while I expected $$$ if anything broke, I didn't know how much to really expect, nor was Audi killing warranties like Oprah hands out cars at that point!!

I have no doubt that thing is going to really appreciate in value soon - with 2019 almost certainly being the RS3's last year in the US, the TTRS being dead after 2019, and people running high-10's low-11's with literally nothing but a tune - but I just wasn't willing to hold out. Nice thing is, resale was definitely better than most German stuff, so I only ate about $7k in value to drive it for a year. In the same time period, our Golf R has dropped about $10k from MSRP, so that's damn near 25% in a year.

To contrast, when I traded in my 2018 STI for the Golf R for my wife, I actually got about $400 MORE than I paid for it. :)

In my opinion, I really shouldn't be able to compare my $60k+ German performance car with my sub-$40k Japanese car.... but I can, and the Japanese car comes out favorably to me in most of the comparisons. That says it all, I think. The STI has always been the car in my heart, or my 'spirit car' as my wife says, so I'm done fighting it. They're CERTAINLY not flawless, but I can't find a damn thing, at any price point, that really is.
 
#82 ·
Guys, the Golf R is a $42k car. The STI starts at $36k.

Also not sure where you’re located - those values are VERY different than they are here! Median trade-in value on the Golf R here in Charlotte is about $32k. STI (base) is the same - on a car that costs $6k less.
 
#91 ·
Golf R is more refined and offers more comfort than the STI, which unfortunately, also dulls the driving experience. As for the RS, it is even more raw and extreme than the STI in that aspect. Even know that they are often compared as by the public and journalists as direct competitors, the reality is that their target buyers are very different from one another.

Until VAG decides to put the real Quattro system into the Golf R, the Haldex equipped Golf R will always be a step behind the STI from the driver's perspective. This is the one major difference between the two platforms and from the MSRP POV, the Haldex is a much cheaper and far inferior system to produce, the Golf series was designed as a FWD platform from the start with AWD being more of an after thought, as oppose to the STI, it was designed to be an AWD vehicle from the start.
 
#93 ·
The biggest detractor to the Focus RS is the fact that you can't buy a new one anymore. That, and the gas pedal is about a mile deeper towards the firewall than the brake pedal, so heel-toe stock is impossible, unless you're bigfoot. Any manual performance car that needs a gas pedal mod out of the box just to be able to heel-toe is pretty silly, in my opinion!

As far as VAG goes, they're not even putting real Quattro in the RS3, so there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Golf R ever getting it. Haldex is perfectly serviceable for street driving, though, and I honestly didn't mind the system. On the track, though - especially in the RS3 - understeer city.
 
#92 ·
While the STI limited has a $41k MSRP, it's not a "$41k car". The '19 STIs have been selling for $4k under MSRP very easily. I purchased my '19 STI with the Recaro package for under invoice:

MSRP: $41,622
Invoice: $38,802
Paid: $37,522

I didn't want a limited, but I received quotes for $37-38k. That makes a huge difference in the hit that you take when trading it in. I wouldn't have purchased my '19 STI for MSRP. But getting it for $4k under with 1.9% financing was enough incentive to pull the trigger.

I also imagine that the resale value of the '18 STI dropped a bit once the 2019 model was released as its improvements make it more desirable. While I was shopping for my '19 STI, I saw a used '18 STI base (w/o the Recaro package) for $36k.. obviously I would pay $1k more for a new car with the Recaro package, powertrain improvements, Apple Carplay/Android Auto, etc.

Golf Rs are pretty rare in my area and harder to come by. The MSRP for a 2019 Golf R is $40k w/ manual and $41k w/ the much loved DSG. Paying MSRP is considered a good deal.

Whether the Golf R or STI is a better car is personal preference as to which suites your needs better. They're both great cars and are better in different ways. The Golf R is certainly the more expensive car.
 
#99 · (Edited)
I have owned 2 STIs and my 16 limited is paid off late last year (cue the moron that use to post a title in my very own name, lol repeatedly) with 16 thousand miles they arare still selling for 32 plus grand on autotrader. I love the 15 and 16 STIs as always subaru adds and deletes things as they see fit, here and there. My 08 model had the rear fold down arm rest the 16 doesnt. When you pay off teh sti and keep the miles low they really dont depreciate much below 24 grand or so. Heck bring a trailer has some that bring crazy money maybe the gen 1s have depecaited some due to the ability to finanace them but the 15 pluses will stay strong for a while unless the new sti makes 350 plus hp.

What you have to realize the focus rs is based on a 10 grand focus it feels like that once you get in one. I passed buf I am sure their are people who have dumped their stis for focus rs
 
#105 ·
In 2016 I got 3-3.5 off MSRP. I dont think many dealers have been selling stis for MSRP since 2010 or at least the gen 1s were out. Subarus hold their values I had a subaru forester xt and they ae no longer made, the demand for them is huge. I would say any turbo subaru will hold their value better than any thing else in its segment and on the road. Used subarus bring excellent money just the way it is and by huge depreciation you might be talking 2-3 grand below what they wojdl sell for new. I would not worry about that and just drive the car.
 
#106 ·
Give us S209 powertrain in an STI premium for under 10k extra. That would make it under $65000 CAD after tax. Simlar to Focus RS price and what it offered for performance. RIP.

Easily doable, parts are already in subaru's bin. Maybe 2021. Hybrid STI seems far away, very unlikely in next few years.
 
#109 ·
Does anyone know more on this? I know torque news has had some solid leads in the past. I'd hope it wasn't true. Sending off the last year STI with 310hp and non S209 internals sucks. Canada got ripped the most not getting a chance to even get an S209.

Sad state of Subaru. They have potential customers willing to spend more to be competitive to RS3/TTRS/CLA45/M2. Those cars are all in the 400hp range and can be 500whp with light bolt on/tune.

2020 Subaru WRX STI, Next Generation 2021 STI Details Leaked - YouTube
 
#111 ·
Sad state of Subaru. They have potential customers willing to spend more to be competitive to RS3/TTRS/CLA45/M2. Those cars are all in the 400hp range and can be 500whp with light bolt on/tune.

2020 Subaru WRX STI, Next Generation 2021 STI Details Leaked - YouTube
It'll be interesting to see what Subaru does with the pricing of the S209. I've heard rumors that the MSRP will be around $65k. As you mentioned, that puts its 341 hp engine up against a lot of faster cars (M2, GT350, new 416 hp AMG 45s, RS3, etc.). Not to mention, the new game changer C8 Corvette.. At least it's a limited production model and is the only car out of the group that comes with AWD, 4 doors & a manual transmission. It'll certainly struggle to be competitive in that price range. The next gen STI really has its work cut out for it.

Hopefully the next gen will have the FA24 with stronger internals, a larger twin scroll ball bearing turbo, and dual injection (like the BRZ - for power in higher rpms & reducing carbon buildup). It'll need at least 350-400 hp to stay relevant. The FA20s respond really well to flex fuel and can easily reach 350-400whp with bolt ons, but that starts pushing the limit of their rods. Hopefully the next gen STI will be able to push ~450whp with e85, full bolt ons & a tune.. but only time will tell. Subaru has really kept their plans a secret.. hopefully that doesn't mean the next gen is even further away.
 
#114 ·
I'll never understand why anyone who is actually concerned about exclusivity would ever have their eyes on any car in STINKs [ :)] list let alone a Subaru.

Yeah, I know your not the only one to use that term here. Seen it for RA.s and gray something or others and whatever . . . :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
#121 ·
The sti took q performance dump when they upgraded the 19 inch wheels and went to bigger rotors calipers. The 15s and 16s still get ihto the 4s for zero to sixty, the newer models dont for whatever reason that is. A new supra is 60 grand as well and the oniy thing holding me back from that is the fact it no longer has a six speed and a targa. A sports car needs to be able to row the gears.
 
#122 · (Edited)
The sti took a performance dump when they upgraded the 19 inch wheels and went to bigger rotors calipers. The 15s and 16s still get into the 4s for zero to sixty, the newer models dont for whatever reason that is.
The 17" BBS wheels on the 2004 STI were 15.7 lbs each. The 19" wheels on the 2018+ STI are 28.4 lbs. That's 12.7 lbs more per wheel.. a total of 50.8 lbs more rotational mass. That's certainly significant enough to impact acceleration, braking, and steering.

The 18" BBS wheels on the 2015 STI are in the middle at 22.1 lbs. Its 0-60 was 4.6 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.2 sec (same as the 2004 STI).
 
#123 ·
Yes many new STI buyers are 30+. We are willing to drop 20k, maybe even 30k more for 4 second 0-60 or quicker. Less boyracer rice and more mature performance. S209 internals with IC sprayer. Titanium exhaust with active valve. CC brakes. Light rims/Better Tires.

I would love option for night vision assist similar to Porsche, Audi, Caddy. Rev match, Launch control, No lift shift, Wideband, Trunk battery. Get near 3300lbs.

TTRS,M2,CLA all girly looking vehicles too. Turning the STI from boyracer to manracer can be done with 20-30k.
 
#126 · (Edited)
Pricing has been released for the 2020 WRX, STI & BRZ.
Subaru Announces Pricing For 2020 BRZ, WRX And WRX STI Performance Model Lines

The 2020 STI changes include:
  • $400 price bump
  • "Redesigned engine bay cooling ducts in the front bumper" - This probably refers to the front grille & fog bezel changes mentioned in the first post of this thread
  • "19-inch aluminium alloy wheels in new dark gray with machine finish"
  • "Keyless Access with Push-Button Start" comes standard

No mention of a Series.White or any other special editions for the WRX or STI. However, the BRZ tS is back and will come in Ceramic White.

More interesting than the STI:

Subaru is including Brembos on the WRX Performance package! (4 piston in the front, 2 piston in the rear) The $2,850 performance package option puts the WRX around $32,645 with the Brembos & Recaros.

I'm also surprised that they're bringing the BRZ tS back as I saw quite a few of those sitting at dealerships for a long time. The only real change seems to be that they ditched the huge CF wing for a more "understated" low profile spoiler. The BRZ tS only comes in ceramic white with matte bronze wheels.

2020 marks the return of the BRZ tS (tuned by STI) with a limited run of 300 units and priced at $31,495. The tS suspension upgrades include STI-tuned front and rear SACHS dampers and coil springs as well as an STI flexible V-brace in the engine compartment. Draw stiffeners are added to the chassis and sub-frame to improve steering response. The brake system is also upgraded to Brembo four-piston calipers and rotors on the front and dual-piston calipers and rotors on the rear.

The 2020 BRZ tS comes exclusively in a new Ceramic White exterior color and is paired with 18-inch wheels in matte-bronze finish wrapped in 215/40R18 Michelin Pilot Sport tires. The BRZ tS offers customers a more understated appearance than before, featuring a low-profile rear spoiler.
 
#127 · (Edited)
Pricing has been released for the 2020 WRX, STI & BRZ.
Subaru Announces Pricing For 2020 BRZ, WRX And WRX STI Performance Model Lines

The 2020 STI changes include:
  • $400 price bump
  • "Redesigned engine bay cooling ducts in the front bumper" - This probably refers to the front grille & fog bezel changes mentioned in the first post of this thread
  • "19-inch aluminium alloy wheels in new dark gray with machine finish"
  • "Keyless Access with Push-Button Start" comes standard

No mention of a Series.White (ceramic white) or any other special editions for the WRX or STI. The BRZ tS will come in Ceramic White.

More interesting:

Subaru is including Brembos on the WRX Performance package! (4 piston in the front, 2 piston in the rear) The $2,850 performance package option puts the WRX around $32,645 with the Brembos & Recaros.

I'm also surprised that they're bringing back the BRZ tS as I saw quite a few of those sitting at dealerships for a long time. The only real change seems to be that they ditched the huge CF wing. It also has the Ceramic White color option.
Headlight height adjustment controls? Line from the release," Steering Responsive LED headlights (low and high beam) with height adjustment controls",. Are the 18 and 19's supposed to have height adjustable lights? Mine doesn't seem to.
 
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