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Old 06-21-19, 07:08 AM   #91
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

Golf R is more refined and offers more comfort than the STI, which unfortunately, also dulls the driving experience. As for the RS, it is even more raw and extreme than the STI in that aspect. Even know that they are often compared as by the public and journalists as direct competitors, the reality is that their target buyers are very different from one another.

Until VAG decides to put the real Quattro system into the Golf R, the Haldex equipped Golf R will always be a step behind the STI from the driver's perspective. This is the one major difference between the two platforms and from the MSRP POV, the Haldex is a much cheaper and far inferior system to produce, the Golf series was designed as a FWD platform from the start with AWD being more of an after thought, as oppose to the STI, it was designed to be an AWD vehicle from the start.
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Old 06-21-19, 07:46 AM   #92
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

While the STI limited has a $41k MSRP, it's not a "$41k car". The '19 STIs have been selling for $4k under MSRP very easily. I purchased my '19 STI with the Recaro package for under invoice:

MSRP: $41,622
Invoice: $38,802
Paid: $37,522

I didn't want a limited, but I received quotes for $37-38k. That makes a huge difference in the hit that you take when trading it in. I wouldn't have purchased my '19 STI for MSRP. But getting it for $4k under with 1.9% financing was enough incentive to pull the trigger.

I also imagine that the resale value of the '18 STI dropped a bit once the 2019 model was released as its improvements make it more desirable. While I was shopping for my '19 STI, I saw a used '18 STI base (w/o the Recaro package) for $36k.. obviously I would pay $1k more for a new car with the Recaro package, powertrain improvements, Apple Carplay/Android Auto, etc.

Golf Rs are pretty rare in my area and harder to come by. The MSRP for a 2019 Golf R is $40k w/ manual and $41k w/ the much loved DSG. Paying MSRP is considered a good deal.

Whether the Golf R or STI is a better car is personal preference as to which suites your needs better. They're both great cars and are better in different ways. The Golf R is certainly the more expensive car.
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Old 06-21-19, 07:46 AM   #93
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
Golf R is more refined and offers more comfort than the STI, which unfortunately, also dulls the driving experience. As for the RS, it is even more raw and extreme than the STI in that aspect. Even know that they are often compared as by the public and journalists as direct competitors, the reality is that their target buyers are very different from one another.

Until VAG decides to put the real Quattro system into the Golf R, the Haldex equipped Golf R will always be a step behind the STI from the driver's perspective. This is the one major difference between the two platforms and from the MSRP POV, the Haldex is a much cheaper and far inferior system to produce, the Golf series was designed as a FWD platform from the start with AWD being more of an after thought, as oppose to the STI, it was designed to be an AWD vehicle from the start.
The biggest detractor to the Focus RS is the fact that you can't buy a new one anymore. That, and the gas pedal is about a mile deeper towards the firewall than the brake pedal, so heel-toe stock is impossible, unless you're bigfoot. Any manual performance car that needs a gas pedal mod out of the box just to be able to heel-toe is pretty silly, in my opinion!

As far as VAG goes, they're not even putting real Quattro in the RS3, so there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Golf R ever getting it. Haldex is perfectly serviceable for street driving, though, and I honestly didn't mind the system. On the track, though - especially in the RS3 - understeer city.
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Old 06-21-19, 10:00 AM   #94
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSi08 View Post
As far as VAG goes, they're not even putting real Quattro in the RS3, so there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the Golf R ever getting it. Haldex is perfectly serviceable for street driving, though, and I honestly didn't mind the system. On the track, though - especially in the RS3 - understeer city.
That and the elimination of a manual transmission is exactly why I left VAG. IMO, the Big 3 Germany automakers are more focused on tech and comfort instead of the shear driving experiences these days. Haldex is getting better and an okay system, it has its proper place in the market place, maybe its just me, but I do expect more from Audi Sport GmbH when it comes to cars carrying the RS moniker.

Anyway, my apology to the OP, this thread is about the 2020 STI changes and not to be a comparison of different cars.
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Old 06-21-19, 11:46 AM   #95
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

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Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
That and the elimination of a manual transmission is exactly why I left VAG. IMO, the Big 3 Germany automakers are more focused on tech and comfort instead of the shear driving experiences these days. Haldex is getting better and an okay system, it has its proper place in the market place, maybe its just me, but I do expect more from Audi Sport GmbH when it comes to cars carrying the RS moniker.

Anyway, my apology to the OP, this thread is about the 2020 STI changes and not to be a comparison of different cars.
Definitely! The DSG is REALLY fantastic - but it's NOT a manual. Slower or not, sometimes you just want to row your own gears, not flap your own paddles.
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Old 06-21-19, 01:14 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by DarkSi08 View Post
Definitely! The DSG is REALLY fantastic - but it's NOT a manual. Slower or not, sometimes you just want to row your own gears, not flap your own paddles.
My experience with the DSG transmission has been extremely disappointing at best. IMO, it is more suitable for track use than street use, especially with a daily driver. So I am hopeful that Subaru will continue to offer manual trans with their cars and especially with the STI. The 2020 STI may be outdated to many, but that is also part of the charm of the STI. Sure, there are features that I do miss and wish the STI has, mostly for convenience reasons. But at the same time, the old tech in STI offers so much more than all these new tech can ever offer.

Last edited by Tifosi; 06-22-19 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 06-21-19, 04:16 PM   #97
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

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Originally Posted by DarkSi08 View Post
Technically easy, yes, but a large pain in the ass when you're on your phone.

The numbers, in reality, are much different. I had to fight to get $32k on the Golf R - hard, and it's in immaculate condition. I had the exact same experience trying to work a deal with 4 different dealerships on trading it. Every single one of them tried to offer me $29k at first, with 3 of the 4 setting a hard line at $31,500. I'm not sure how you're even getting the numbers you're seeing there, as when I search, the range is very different.

STI was zero issues to get exactly what I wanted for it - again, got $38k for my 7k mile 2018 last April. They threw it on the lot for sale at $41k (less than $1k less than original MSRP), and it was literally gone the next day.
Strange. How many miles did the Golf R have and what year was it?
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Old 06-21-19, 04:47 PM   #98
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSi08 View Post
I had a long, anti-VAG rant typed up here, but realized it was honestly exhausting.

The summary is this - The Golf R is an absolutely fantastic car, and I honestly liked driving it VERY much, once it had some proper rubber on it. Honestly, tires completely transformed it from boring and sterile, to an absolute blast. Funny how that works.

Important thing to know - while the R is better than the STI in nearly every conceivable way (aside from ruggedness - it has exactly none of that), VAG is EXTREMELY trigger-happy these days when it comes to voiding warranties.
make sure you're ready for a voided warranty, unless you NEVER take it to the dealership. They'll scan the car anytime it's there, as they've been advised to do - oil changes, flat tire repair, just hitting the car wash at the dealer? It's getting scanned. If they find evidence of a tune, your warranty WILL be voided, period. Many bolt-on parts will net the same treatment, especially a downpipe. I've read at least one story of someone with an RS3 having his warranty voided over a cat-back exhaust...

It's a liability if you like to mod, and not just a financial one, there are potential legal ramifications once you sell it, as well. Worth it? That's for you to decide. I decided it wasn't - but honestly, just barely!
That doesn't apply to just VW, this is pretty much any car manufacturer nowadays. It also largely depends on the dealer. When I had my STi the service advisor told me that a catback could definitely void the warranty in a result of engine failure, anything more than an axleback was not acceptable in Subaru's eyes.

With VW, you can always go APR Plus if you want to tune and have some kind of warranty. Subaru would void your warranty just as well if you plan on tuning. Have there been cases where SoA covered engine failure with a tune as a good-will? Yes, but there have also been cases like that with a VW.

Also, you can get a JB4 piggyback mod to increase boost and modify A/F. It's fairly easy to remove and does not get flagged as a tune. A friend of mine was able to improve his 1/4 mile time by nearly a full second with just a $400 JB4 mod.


Quote:
Originally Posted by STINick19
While the STI limited has a $41k MSRP, it's not a "$41k car". The '19 STIs have been selling for $4k under MSRP very easily. I purchased my '19 STI with the Recaro package for under invoice:

MSRP: $41,622
Invoice: $38,802
Paid: $37,522

Whether the Golf R or STI is a better car is personal preference as to which suites your needs better. They're both great cars and are better in different ways. The Golf R is certainly the more expensive car.
Unless you can provide links proving that the Golf R has a lower MSRP than the STi limited, you can't really be certain of that. It depends what area you live in. Where are you seeing the MSRP for a '19 STi limited at $41k cause in my area it's showing an MSRP or $43 to $44k? Comes out to $41k after dealer discounts. Getting them down to $37,500 would be like a 1 in 1000 kinda deal that the dealership would probably lose money on. Can you find any dealer website showing their discounted price on an STi limited that's lower than the Golf R?

I'm going based on factual sources. We're going by MSRP numbers and listed prices of dealerships, not what you claim you paid.https://www.northparksubaru.net/new/...7da4ab7087.htm
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Old 06-21-19, 05:29 PM   #99
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

I have owned 2 STIs and my 16 limited is paid off late last year (cue the moron that use to post a title in my very own name, lol repeatedly) with 16 thousand miles they arare still selling for 32 plus grand on autotrader. I love the 15 and 16 STIs as always subaru adds and deletes things as they see fit, here and there. My 08 model had the rear fold down arm rest the 16 doesnt. When you pay off teh sti and keep the miles low they really dont depreciate much below 24 grand or so. Heck bring a trailer has some that bring crazy money maybe the gen 1s have depecaited some due to the ability to finanace them but the 15 pluses will stay strong for a while unless the new sti makes 350 plus hp.

What you have to realize the focus rs is based on a 10 grand focus it feels like that once you get in one. I passed buf I am sure their are people who have dumped their stis for focus rs

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Old 06-21-19, 05:36 PM   #100
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Default Re: 2020 STi Changes

In the Pacific NW:

Golf R MSRP start at $40,395. https://www.vw.com/models/golf-r/section/overview/

STI Limited MSRP start at $41,395. 2019 Subaru WRX - Models | Subaru
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