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Oil temps way high after header install
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Old 03-11-19, 12:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by killerbmotorsport View Post
Get yourself a sample of fire sleeve (the orange stuff) and slide it over the adapter/sender. If the headers are in fact influencing the sensor temps, this should solve that. If not, you know it's another factor.




No. Not on a street application. For a track car or dry weather only car it's much less of an issue.



It's definitely a long process, taking many days. 4 weeks including shipping during the slow season and longer during the busy season.

I think most of the complaints are from people that have never used the service before and don't know what to expect. Application is difficult to precisely control so there can be overspray on v-band flanges. It just takes a little time to clear off; it's not difficult. There are not nearly as many complaints as there are happy customers. Half of the headers we sell, are bought with the Swain Tech option. With our Vektor Performance headers, about 80% order with the Swain Tech option.



Thanks for the heads up. We are scheduled to make web-updates soon and that is on our list.

Gotcha. I'll give the fire sleeve a try.

It mostly just seems odd that the temps jumped so drastically immediately after the header install. It seems most likely that something is being affected... hopefully it's just a false reading off the sensor and insulating it can take care of it.
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Old 03-14-19, 06:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by brapp View Post
Gotcha. I'll give the fire sleeve a try.

It mostly just seems odd that the temps jumped so drastically immediately after the header install. It seems most likely that something is being affected... hopefully it's just a false reading off the sensor and insulating it can take care of it.

The wire for the sender seems to be a nice thermal conductor, so the sleeve may help, although in my case, the sender had been on a sandwich adapter by the filter. My issue was solved with a new crossover pipe and moving the temp sensor into the Killer B pan. The fire sleeve might help, but I'd be a little surprised if you are really getting that much heat conducted so far away. Is there any chance that your sender is routed near something very hot?



Having an undertray (and properly fitting bumper) to keep air flowing properly through the radiator and engine bay also proved to be a significant factor in runaway track temps for me.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by theGraySTiG View Post
The wire for the sender seems to be a nice thermal conductor, so the sleeve may help, although in my case, the sender had been on a sandwich adapter by the filter. My issue was solved with a new crossover pipe and moving the temp sensor into the Killer B pan. The fire sleeve might help, but I'd be a little surprised if you are really getting that much heat conducted so far away. Is there any chance that your sender is routed near something very hot?



Having an undertray (and properly fitting bumper) to keep air flowing properly through the radiator and engine bay also proved to be a significant factor in runaway track temps for me.
It isn't routed any differently than it was before the new headers... the car actually had a factory gauge pack stock from Subaru with an oil temp sensor and the Defi sensor is routed exactly how the factory one was. The sensor itself is installed in the oil pan drain plug. I will go ahead and check though that the wire isn't sitting extra close to the new headers or anything.

I still have the factory plastic undertray... I do have a Beatrush undertray on order which should hopefully be showing up in the next couple weeks.
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Old 03-18-19, 03:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by brapp View Post

The one nice thing about CO is that they don't salt the roads here. So while it would be exposed to wet conditions (or as much as the undertray lets through), it wouldn't be getting covered in salt.

I hate to break it to you but in the last 10-15 years CO has started using
both brine (salt in water) and magnesium chloride on the roads in winter.


It gets bad enough now that chrome starts degrading in 1-2 years.


Where I live they don't even really plow anymore just dump mag chloride....dump.dump
.dump until the snow turns black. Then they wonder why the trees on the sides of roads die and wildlife gets hit (because they lick the salt off the roads).



In fact they drop it on the roads days in advance of any perceived snowfall....most of the time it won't even need it.


In many ways liquid brine and liquid mag chloride are worse than gritty salt because it
can get in so many more places and dry.
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Old 03-27-19, 09:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

Update...

Got some Fire Sleeve... covered the sender and about half the exposed gauge wire in it. Then wrapped the rest of the wire in gold heat tape. No change unfortunately. So, while the gauge itself could be wonky... the heat isn't affecting the reading.

I'm kinda doubting the gauge is off as it wasn't touched during the header install and immediately started showing higher temps after the headers were on.

I also got some of DEI's new oil filter heatshields, so I'm going to try that next and see if that has any measurable benefit.

Also thinking to try to pick up a Killer B oil pan here soon... mostly for the extra oil capacity on track, but also thinking it'll help with oil temps some.
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Old 03-27-19, 04:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

Quote:
Originally Posted by brapp View Post
Update...

Got some Fire Sleeve... covered the sender and about half the exposed gauge wire in it. Then wrapped the rest of the wire in gold heat tape. No change unfortunately. So, while the gauge itself could be wonky... the heat isn't affecting the reading.

I'm kinda doubting the gauge is off as it wasn't touched during the header install and immediately started showing higher temps after the headers were on.

Although that may be a good reason to not jump to the conclusion that the gauge/sensor has gone bad, I wouldn't rule it out. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to diagnose that deterministicly without spare parts to swap in.
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Old 03-27-19, 07:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by theGraySTiG View Post
Although that may be a good reason to not jump to the conclusion that the gauge/sensor has gone bad, I wouldn't rule it out. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to diagnose that deterministicly without spare parts to swap in.

True. I think probably a pot of boiling water would be a good way to test it. Water boils at right about 200 degrees at this altitude.

It does seem to be acting normally though... just reading about 20ish degrees higher than it did before.
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Old 03-27-19, 07:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherDave View Post
I hate to break it to you but in the last 10-15 years CO has started using
both brine (salt in water) and magnesium chloride on the roads in winter.


It gets bad enough now that chrome starts degrading in 1-2 years.


Where I live they don't even really plow anymore just dump mag chloride....dump.dump
.dump until the snow turns black. Then they wonder why the trees on the sides of roads die and wildlife gets hit (because they lick the salt off the roads).



In fact they drop it on the roads days in advance of any perceived snowfall....most of the time it won't even need it.


In many ways liquid brine and liquid mag chloride are worse than gritty salt because it
can get in so many more places and dry.
It often makes my Diff Overheat light light.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theGraySTiG View Post
Although that may be a good reason to not jump to the conclusion that the gauge/sensor has gone bad, I wouldn't rule it out. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to diagnose that deterministicly without spare parts to swap in.
Assuming it's an RTD measure the sensor from inside with a DVM - when cold and warm though you might want a second one to compare if you can't find what it is supposed to be. Could be a thermocouple, but not so likely.
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Old 03-27-19, 08:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheyman View Post
Assuming it's an RTD measure the sensor from inside with a DVM - when cold and warm though you might want a second one to compare if you can't find what it is supposed to be. Could be a thermocouple, but not so likely.
No idea at all what any of this means except that I might need a second sensor to compare

I imagine that if I were to heat a pot of water to a known temperature and then test if the sensor reads that temperature... that would be a good test?

In any case though... I really don't think it was the sensor. It read perfectly normal, then I changed the headers WITHOUT even touching or really even coming near the sensor... then it immediately reads 20 degrees or so higher.

It could totally be a coincidence... but it would be pretty crazy timing if the sensor went bad, all on its own, at the exact time I changed the headers.

The biggest thing that I've noticed with the temps is how they follow driving conditions. Oddly enough... the temps seem to be highest when I'm cruising for long periods of time under mild, consistent load. Say about 0 boost, minimal to 0 vacuum, 3k ish RPM. Like climbing a prolonged hill at the speed limit. They actually stay a lot lower when I'm getting into boost more, say like having fun on a windy road. Lots of hard pulls in a row will make them climb, of course.

Also odd... the temps don't seem to be very affected by temperature. 60ish degrees ambient is giving similar temps to 30 degrees ambient.

Last edited by brapp; 03-27-19 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 03-28-19, 03:34 AM   #30
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Default Re: Oil temps way high after header install

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Originally Posted by brapp View Post
Update...
Also thinking to try to pick up a Killer B oil pan here soon... mostly for the extra oil capacity on track, but also thinking it'll help with oil temps some.
It's definitely a good track mod insurance policy. As far as oil temps, it's not substitute for a remote oil cooler, but does generally bring temps down ~5-15°f. These cars run fairly cold oil temps compared to most other turbo cars out there. Remote coolers are needed far less often unless you are track only, high HP, and in the southern states. Often times necessity requires more than one of these conditions to occur.

If you track and use a high quality synthetic, 250°f is when to keep a watchful eye and 260°f is when it's time to take a cool down lap. My personal sweet spot for our engines (and even OEM engines), the oils we use, and the conditions we see, is ~220°-240°.
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