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Recommend a pitch stop mount?
Recommend a pitch stop mount?
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Old 06-17-15, 04:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

how about those yankees!
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Old 06-17-15, 07:09 PM   #32
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Default Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubySal View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubySal View Post
My assembly methods come from the aircraft industry where every fastener uses either loctite, locknuts, castlenuts, or safety wire.
Perhaps, but lock washers are generally part of a design. Loctite can be too. But if unless a design is inadequate, no. Adding Loctite everywhere is not beneficial. It might not hurt but not beneficial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubySal View Post
It's vibration that loosens components even if they are properly torqued.
Each case should be evaluated - like lug nuts. Ya know they used to be done "right" with nuts on the left side of a vehicle reverse threads? But people, engineers realize that if you just design them and tighten them adequately they don't come off! Most people would consider lug nuts critical Do you? Do you Loctite them? On the left side of your car they are in a location where they might actually spin off on their own! No one worries about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubySal View Post
The FJ40 is an old jeep style Land Cruiser made by Toyota. It used to vibrate itself to pieces. I almost lost a driveshaft once as the bolts loosened from vibration. Vibration also loosened the pinion nut which killed the pinion bearings requiring a rebuild of the rear end. The former was properly torqued at first.
By you? You have pretty much defined that you don't know how to tighten a bolt so that it will stay put without Loctite. Sorry that doesn't count.

Last comment here: If I were to go to a mechanic who told me they used Loctite on everything cause they can't depend on fasteners - I'd leave. Go to someone who knows how to use them. Seriously.

I'm wrong? Then why don't all factory assembled car cars fall apart at every fastener all the time!

Again, seriously: there probably 100 fasteners that use something ,like Loctite of thousands in a car. For the most part like 99.99999999% of the time they work! Imagine that!

OK. You have stock in Loctite? Go for it.
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Old 06-17-15, 07:58 PM   #33
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheyman View Post
No.



Perhaps, but lock washers are in part of the design. Loctite can be too. But if unless a design is inadequate, no. Adding Loctite everywhere is not beneficial. It might not hurt but not beneficial.
After a lock washer is used once it has to be replaced to maintain it's original effectiveness. Many lockwashers on the Subaru are captured so that means the bolt has to be replaced also. How many people actually do that? Most don't even want to go to the dealership to buy parts.



Quote:
Each case should be evaluated - like lug nuts. Ya know they used to be done "right" with nuts on the right side of a vehicle reverse threads? But the people, engineers realize that if you just design them and tighten them properly they don't come of.. Most people would consider lug nuts critical Do you? Do you Loctite them?
I do not loctite lugnuts. I just didn't think I needed to state that. I do torque them though.



Quote:
By you - you pretty much have defined that you don't know how to tighten a bolt so that it will stay put without Loctite. Sorry that doesn't count.
Now you're getting personal. When parts are assembled in the factory they are brand new parts in a consistent ambient temperature. When you do a repair it could be outside or the parts may not be clean or the bolt may have stretched or deformed slightly from normal usage. Loctite negates all these factors. And if you don't think I know what I'm doing then just take a look at my build thread.

Quote:
Last comment here: If I were to go to a mechanic who told me they used Loctite on everything cause they can't depend on fasteners - I'd leave. Go to someone who knows how to use them Seriously.
Maybe this is my fault for not being explicit and obvious. I use my experience and judgment as to what bolts get loctite.


Quote:
I'm wrong? Then why don't all factory assembled car cars fall apart at every fastener?
Again, seriously: there probably 100 fasteners that use something ,like Loctite in a car of thousands. For the most part like 99.99999999% of the time they work! Imagine that!
Again cars are assembled under ideal conditions. This whole subject came up because one poster here had correctly torqued his pitch mounts bolts but they came loose anyway. And the OP thought he needed to up the torque to be safe. Which brings me to another point. This is a modification. Therefore the OE torque parameters may not even apply. When you stiffen a car like I have done it increases the vibration throughout the car. This means that the OE torque specs may not be sufficient anymore to keep the fastener from vibrating loose. Since I'm not going to arbitrarily increase torque values I use loctite to accommodate for this issue.
Quote:
OK. You have stock in Loctite? Go for it.
I don't have stock in loctite, but I'll go for it anyway thank you. I look at the stock car as a starting point to be improved upon and that's exactly what I've done. You do what you want, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm doing. I'm done with this.

Last edited by SubySal; 06-17-15 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 06-18-15, 04:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Sorry if I was being a D,,k

Using a bunch of Loctite isn't going to hurt anything.
Drive shaft bolts are a use where it might be warranted.

Still, common split washers are generally multiple use - especially if they are retained.
Few fasteners require Loctite.
If you are having problems with lots of bolts loosening there is probably something causing it, and its' not the increased NVH so commonly experienced by many here, incl me.
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Old 06-18-15, 04:33 AM   #35
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Default Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheyman View Post
If you are having problems with lots of bolts loosening there is probably something causing it, and its' not the increased NVH so commonly experienced by many here, incl me.
Wrong. It is vibration, plain and simple, harmonic vibration in the situation I've dealt with the most. We have a generator family we use that will literally vibrate itself apart within a month if the bolts aren't constantly retorqued. This is a genset produced by Caterpillar who I'd say should have their shit down. Can't speak for using Loctite on them as we weren't allowed to yet when I left.

Regardless, this is more common of a problem that you'd think. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is being ignorant.

Oh, and upping the torque values didn't help either. The hardware deformed and lost the ability for reuse after a single use.
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Old 09-17-15, 07:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Late to the party, but I found when replacing OEM shifter bushings out with KB Bushings I got more noticeable NVH there, then the Perrin Pitch Stop which I replaced at the same time. With the Pitch Stop I saw a little less lurching when shifting and liked it. This was about a year ago. I have since then changed almost all my other bushings (Engine, Trans, Drive Train, Steering, etc.) and noticed a large increase in NVH. This is not for everyone but it handles incredibly better now.
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Old 09-18-15, 12:48 AM   #37
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregroot198521 View Post
Wrong. It is vibration, plain and simple, harmonic vibration in the situation I've dealt with the most. We have a generator family we use that will literally vibrate itself apart within a month if the bolts aren't constantly retorqued. This is a genset produced by Caterpillar who I'd say should have their shit down. Can't speak for using Loctite on them as we weren't allowed to yet when I left.

Regardless, this is more common of a problem that you'd think. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is being ignorant.

Oh, and upping the torque values didn't help either. The hardware deformed and lost the ability for reuse after a single use.
Sounds as though the fasteners are inadequate, iE will not be secure in the application where they were used. That is a case where use of lock title might be justified. I have few problems keeping the threaded fasteners on my vehicles tight though. Nether do any of the mechanics I know. They can't spend even the time to apply it. They use it where instructed. Bet there's only a handful of cases in your service manual.
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Old 09-18-15, 08:59 AM   #38
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Default Re: Recommend a pitch stop mount?

I've run group-N on 2 STIs and it is a quiet but effective upgrade. If you're upgrading engine/trans mounts to group-N (which I'd recommend) this upgrade will match w/other mounts. My experience with other owners is that Beatrush increases NVH substantially.
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