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Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals
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Old 11-04-11, 10:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji_production View Post
ringlands should never blow lol...AMR themselves have said that the stock motor can put out double its stock horsepower in its stock form. A good tune that runs safe afr's, egt's, and safe timing tables will ALWAYS net stock driveability, fuel economy, and safe performance.
Then why do the stock ringlands blow? If the car can handle "double the stock horsepower" then why aren't they? Have you not paid attention to the failures of some peoples cars? I agree that a good tune will be the best defense against the the ringlands cracking, but that does not guarantee that it won't happen.

If you are an engineer then you know that at at higher combustion temps and pressures that cast will start to become malleable and break down as opposed to forged materials that can handle a much higher amount of stress. You'd also know that the cause to a lot of the failures are the higher heat in cylinders 2 and 4 from the poorly designed exhaust manifold. I'm pretty sure AMR probably meant that the stock block as in the casing with out the stock pistons could handle double the HP with a great tune.

Please explain to me how they won't blow? I agree they will be much safer on an impeccable protune, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

BTW I am an engineer so I know enough about it to say something.

Edit: Just for reference double the stock HP at the wheels would be 510whp with a 30 ish% drivetrain loss. So if you would please tell me who is running with the same driveability with 510whp and what I'm sure would include 1000cc+ injectors, bigger turbo, and other supporting mods and still get the same gas mileage.
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Old 11-04-11, 10:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

If you don't have enough money for an emergency shortblock within 6 months-1 year, don't do it.
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Old 11-04-11, 11:42 AM   #23
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

Loving this thread. Experience is what counts, period. These mechanics and shops and engineers that spit this crap out of their mouth that there's longevity in your motor with a bigger turbo as long as you're running e85 and smooth afr's, its crap. There's no promise even with a stock turbo, depending on how your drive it, keeping track of fluid levels and maintenance... I was at the stealership today to drop off my 88 GL, daily driver, and a dude was in there curious what was wrong with his stock motor on an sti. White smoke is dumping out the cb and it wreaks like coolant. I rolled up and asked whether everything was stock, yup. Nothing is a guarantee with these cars, so take the advice given, that you best have a backup plan if you're going to either push the car stock or modify parts. I was lucky when I blew my rings and rod bearing that I had a plan b, extra cash stashed.
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Old 11-04-11, 11:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

Thank you rizaler that further proves it. Nothing is guaranteed people.
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Old 11-04-11, 11:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

My rings started to go on the stock turbo on E85 ~24psi (which I didn't know at the time). A shop told me my turbo was blown (not true) and that's why the motor was eating oil. After installing the 20G-XT and having it tuned, the ringlands were pretty much toast in cylinders 2 and 4. My car has been down for the last 7 months while I've been building a block which is about ready to go in to the car.

In my personal opinion, I wouldn't expect a stock block to last very long on an upgraded turbo... Mine probably only lasted about 5-6K miles after adding E85 on the stock turbo.

EDIT: Please don't listen to fuji production, he obviously doesn't have enough personal experience (his OWN car, his OWN work) to be making such statements about the reliability of the stock block.
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Old 11-04-11, 11:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

I can vividly recall the feeling I got when I blew the ringland and bearing. It was the feeling of betrayal, mainly because I told my tuner that I was seeking a safe tune that would reassure longevity of the motor. 6 months of fun. And there's no one to blame but me, myself and I. Just glad there's a website like this to get other people's EXPERIENCE, not assumptions, about similar situations.
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Old 11-04-11, 01:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

That is why I like street tuning... I've seen many "tuned" cars change through the year based on temp changes. I tune, then a few times through the year, log and make adjustments to compensation tables only.
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Old 11-04-11, 09:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

A bad tune will kill a motor pretty quickly, and some models/years of Subarus came with bad tunes from the factory. There's a thread over at NASIOC that shows the car running near 14.7:1 AFRs well into boost.

I have about 2 years and 20k miles on a stock longblock, ATP 3076, and the supporting mods that you'd expect.

I do my own tuning, so I know exactly how much it knocks, and I keep it to a minimum. Subaru motors probably wouldn't blow up nearly so often if more people would spend the time to make data logs and look for knock. If you don't know how much you're knocking, you don't know how long your motor will last. Most people have on idea how much their motors are knocking. Some will be lucky and some will be unlucky.
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Old 11-04-11, 10:38 PM   #29
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What are symptoms of knocking ? Do you hear that from the engine it's self ? Excuse my newbish qs !!
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Old 11-04-11, 10:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Upgraded Turbo on Stock Internals

Quote:
Originally Posted by armymechanic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji_production View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by armymechanic View Post
And this crap right here is what gives Subaru owners a false confidence. Shops that tell you this, are the same shops offering to build it after it blows.
just keep being the mechanic and ill be the engineer how about that?

as army personel you should know the impact of putting out false or bad information. please stop.
I dont give a **** what you are, you obviously have zero experience on the subject and are reciting crap that you read. I speak from first hand experience only. PLease tell me your experience with cars over 400whp on stock block, and dont say this shop or that shop, I want personal experience. As I said before "engineer" when you let crap like this spill out of your mouth with such confidence, people actually believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Scooby View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji_production View Post
ringlands should never blow lol...AMR themselves have said that the stock motor can put out double its stock horsepower in its stock form. A good tune that runs safe afr's, egt's, and safe timing tables will ALWAYS net stock driveability, fuel economy, and safe performance.
Then why do the stock ringlands blow? If the car can handle "double the stock horsepower" then why aren't they? Have you not paid attention to the failures of some peoples cars? I agree that a good tune will be the best defense against the the ringlands cracking, but that does not guarantee that it won't happen.

If you are an engineer then you know that at at higher combustion temps and pressures that cast will start to become malleable and break down as opposed to forged materials that can handle a much higher amount of stress. You'd also know that the cause to a lot of the failures are the higher heat in cylinders 2 and 4 from the poorly designed exhaust manifold. I'm pretty sure AMR probably meant that the stock block as in the casing with out the stock pistons could handle double the HP with a great tune.

Please explain to me how they won't blow? I agree they will be much safer on an impeccable protune, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

BTW I am an engineer so I know enough about it to say something.
OWNAGE! If you're a real engineer then provide some meaningful evidence not some "This guy did this or that and it didn't break".
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