[Nixlimited]

Let me preface this with the fact that I have been actively planning a water/methanol injection system for my car. I know lots of people that have gotten good results with various system as well.

However, I have been doing some leisure reading to the tune of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost and A. Graham Bell's Forced Induction Performance Tuning and they both are not supportive of water injection systems. I just thought this was interesting given their good press around these parts.

Either way, it's got me thinking.

[Wrathchild]

is A graham Bell a ghost name of Corky? I always thought it was.

thusfar, the experiences I have had with alcohol and water injection have been amazing, almost to the point where I would never have believed it had I not seen it for myself. My take on why they dont like it is the technology of the systems at the time they wrote those books wasnt as good as it is now. Look at the pictures of the setups in A. Graham's book. All 60's and 70's equipment. WI/Alcohol/meth injection systems are more advanced and refined now. At least thats my take on it. Look at it this way. You can run more boost, less fuel, and more timing--with less tendancy to detonate. I would say thats pretty darned good. But its not for everyone, its something that if it fails, pretty much kiss your motor goodbye.

On a side note, reading those books really made me question it too. But seeing in in action sold me on it, and now that I have it, I will never go back.

[Madness]

what could fail and cause problems?

[Nachos Libres]

Originally Posted by ezamaster

what could fail and cause problems?

Your pump could fail and if you run only one map that is tuned for water/alcohol injection you could run your engine lean and blow it since injection effectively increases octane. Usually injection is setup to start at a certain boost pressure (i.e. 7 psi) so if you know your pump has failed you could just stay off the boost till you get it fixed.

[ninjaboy76]

Originally Posted by SVT Amateur

Your pump could fail and if you run only one map that is tuned for water/alcohol injection you could run your engine lean and blow it since injection effectively increases octane. Usually injection is setup to start at a certain boost pressure (i.e. 7 psi) so if you know your pump has failed you could just stay off the boost till you get it fixed.

Yeah, but that is if you know your pump has failed. Most systems I've seen don't have a built in fail safe yet... So usually it is to late. I know there are some companies working on trying to come up with one. I believe one of the Aqua mist systems does have a fail safe, but most Aquamist systems cost an arm and a leg. Anybody out there know if any other water/alky injection systems have any built in fail safes?

[Nolimits]

Cooling Mist is a reputable vendor on our site. He has great customer service and responds quickly to many questions asked to him. What he has in his kits (either as an option or standard idk) is an LED light to show pump activation and he has "clogged nozzle detectors". Shoot him an email or ask him a question.

My friend bought a Cooling Mist product for his SRT-4 because we can run a Race Gas Map without any Race Gas using Water/Alky injection. Its a great feature!!!

[Seranin]

i would think something more electronic would be better. sure, a light is great, but how long would it take for detonation to occur with a sudden drop in octane and increase in temps? maybe something wired into an avc-r to kill boost in the event of failure? maybe i'm overreacting...

[Gruppe-S]

I don't think you're over-reacting. That's why we strongly recommend the use of something like a knock link to monitor instantaneous detonation. That way you know if you're knocking as soon as your knocking and not a second after. The SMC kit that we sell will soon have a fail safe. The fail safe will be a inline pressure sensor that senses alcolhol pressure. When there is no pressure (in the case of a pump failure), the failsafe will automatically limit your turbo to wastegate boost pressure. This is essentailly what you have described above.

-Geoff

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by Gruppe-S

I don't think you're over-reacting. That's why we strongly recommend the use of something like a knock link to monitor instantaneous detonation. That way you know if you're knocking as soon as your knocking and not a second after. The SMC kit that we sell will soon have a fail safe. The fail safe will be a inline pressure sensor that senses alcolhol pressure. When there is no pressure (in the case of a pump failure), the failsafe will automatically limit your turbo to wastegate boost pressure. This is essentailly what you have described above.

-Geoff

When will the kit with the failsafe be available? I've heard of stock VF39's hitting 330whp with WI. Does this sound right or is it BS.

[Nolimits]

Sorry, I forgot the STi's dont have the safety feature my SRT-4 has, when it senses dangerous knock, it turns off the race gas map and puts timing on a pump gas map.

[91TB78]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

When will the kit with the failsafe be available? I've heard of stock VF39's hitting 330whp with WI. Does this sound right or is it BS.

I think that sounds feasible for sure. Using WI/Alchy raises octane to over 100 octane. This is especially useful in extreme hot climates where timing is pulled and where only 91 octane is available.

[Gruppe-S]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

When will the kit with the failsafe be available? I've heard of stock VF39's hitting 330whp with WI. Does this sound right or is it BS.

I've been told that the failsafe will be available within the next month or two. It will most likely be offered as an add on item so that if you already own an SMC kit, you can add the failsafe at any point in time. As far as 330WHP, it depends on what dyno you're talking about. 330 WHP on our dyno is about 440 CHP but on most dynojets it's about 390 CHP. On a dynojet, I'd think you'd be able to break 350 WHP on a VF39 with alky injection. Your torque would be even more impressive though.

Thanks,

Geoff

[silver arrow]

I love torque. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm LS6 in an STi.

[Wrathchild]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

I love torque. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm LS6 in an STi.

insert something about handling or domestic hating here

[rv7]

I believe that Doug from TopSpeed is getting ready to release an injection system. It as a low level light and a spray light to let you know it is working. The coolest feature, and the one that you guys seem to be asking about:

For years, many have wanted to use water/methanol injection but have not taken advantage of the power increases do to safety concerns. Designed as an ad-on to the water/methanol injection system, Safe Injection™ provides for a safe tune in those instances where no injection is present and an aggressive tune is utilized.“ This system reduces boost or timing anytime injection quantity goes below a set point (e.g. if reservoir level goes too low) making the tune instantly conservative for the ultimate in safe water/methanol injection.

Operation
The SI-10 and SI-05 monitor the flow of Water/Methanol in the system. When flow drops below 0.10 Gallons per Minute (GPM), equal to 378 ml/min,( 0.05 GPM or175ml/min on the SI-05) the fault trigger will go to a high state of 12 volts. In addition to the supplied red LED, this trigger can be used to signal the following:

1. an ignition/timing controller such as an MSD timing computer if using an MSD ignition

2. aftermarket engine computer

3. a solenoid such that boost is reduced in a wastegated turbo set-up. or turns off the boost controller giving you a lower boost seting from the wastegate spring.

4. The trigger signal can deliver up to 1.5 amps to drive a solenoid or relay

the option is an additional $99.99