[kingncSTI]

Well, my #4 is done in my 07 sti with 20,000 in it, i dont drive it hard, i have a race car to race so i dont race it.. and it was NOT broke by me, like SOA is saying,, but i have been fighting soa for the last 4 weeks and have got no where the dealer has been better then anything i can ever think of (Flow in Winston, nc) but soa is not going to fix it and i have been at it with TWO head reps at NJ, but anyway i build streetrods for a living and i know what happens in a motor but they say they are not going to fix it due to overboost,,, well if that was it it would have messed up the bearings or a misfire and the piston would have cracked down from the top to the ringland but my and i think others has just broke ringlands the sec that is... but i was putting CP pistons in my motor the other day and started making my ring gaps and i saw my stock piston did NOT have no ring gap none at all, the other pistons did but not the broke one,, i dont know if it was a bad set of rings or what bc all the cars this has been happening on has been late 06 build dates. but if you dont know what no ring gap does when you dont have a gap when the rings get hot they get bigger and the gap closes but when they have no gap there is no where for the ring to go so there for the ring will stick to the wall and when the piston goes for a power or comp stroke something has to give and the wall ant going to move so instead the ringland that the ring is on will break and there for that is what been happened and that is way there has been stock, mod, and everthing between been doing this,, and this is way most of the time it happens after you have pushed it a little the piston ring swells more under boost due to higher cyc temps and there for that is when it is going to happen and it is mostly noticed after the motor is cool down alittle.. after you drive it down the road from that twisty or somthing then the piston swelling goes down alittle (.005) which is when the misfires at idles.. so if you have had this happen to you please check your broke piston if you have it and see if your ring has any gap. on it.. please bc if this is what happens then SOA has nothing that they can say about we broke it and they can't deny our warranty so please help me.. thanks everyone, but let me know,, but i will let everyone.. know what happens when i call soa mon and see what they say i am going to ask for the head eng. that said no to my warranty, and i have two big name eng. builders on my side,, one that builds top fuel motors for snap-on drag car.. so i would like to see what they have to say on this,, but anyway thanks and let me know what you all think....

[302@12psi]

What mods do you have done to your car?

[kingncSTI]

TBE and spt intake.. that is all on the motor side... bu the ring gaps if somthing that is no going to change due to mods so they can not say my mods caused this. so it dont matter and the moss act says they have to prove that the mods caused it and the ring gap is their thing they do not check the ring gaps you know they dont when they are building the cars on the line.. they just make them mass produced and then put them in. so there they have nothing to say on this to mod cars to stock cars when there is no ring gap there is going to be something happen to it

[howboutthemapplz]

TBE and air intake. what EM?

[Ronin_STI]

Do you have any EM?

[kingncSTI]

none, but that does not make a diff when your have not ring gap it did not have a lean misfire, that is what everyone thought at first but it i dont think that is it i know that the stock map is **** and i have looked at it but that dont matter bc it didn't lean misfire i thouhgt i did at first but i cleaned my piston and sonic tested it at work and i saw it didnt have a crack on top but it instead it did have broke ringlands/

[Hitman83]

running a TBE without EM certainly didn't help but you're right it probably would have broken eventually anyways. On the other hand, running no EM with good pistons would've blown it up eventually too. This is a tough one but I think you have a valid case against SOA. The problem is you're both at fault so they aren't gonna budge without a fight. My guess is they won't give in without a court date citing the magnusson moss act. Even if you do win, get that thing tuned.

[kingncSTI]

i am going to build the **** out of it now but the tune is not the pro the thing is that with no ring gap it will break dont matter it the best tuner in the world did it.. i am going with a fp red full build now i will have my build list up here soon,, but the thing is that NO motor dont matter what should not misfire just bc of a damn tbe and intake there is alot of sti,s evos out there without em.. the thing is that with not ring gaps there is no way that a motor will last dont matter if it was tuned or not.. my piston DID NOT show any sings of lean misfires.. NONE if anything it was aliitle rich on the ex side of the runners,, you talking to guy that builds 1000hp motors for street rods and there is two other buiilders on my side.. and the only thing that would make a fuel AR lean is only the intake (SOA makes it so they can not say anything about that...) not the tbe it will make boost creep but i never saw any on my, i logged with my scan tool alot. and the thing is the ring gap NOT the lean misfire that comes with no EM so no EM has nothing to do with it breaking ringlands unless it cracked the top of the piston... ok .. and my did not i sonic tested it and there is not cracks......

[kingncSTI]

and if you didnt see what i said i have a race car so i dont car about putting much money in my car but not now if i had to put pistons in it might as well go the whole way..(i have a pro street, gear jammer, and i am building a 32 ford for track racing)

[302@12psi]

No use in arguing hear because it appears you know you are right.


None the less you made it pretty easy for Subaru to deny the claim.

Not to mention the fact that no EM on a TBE 07 has been PROVEN time and time again to eat motors.

[kingncSTI]

well there has been sti's out here too that has been tuned that did the same thing.. and yes it seems that way but mine did't have no knock so, but i know it sounds like i am hard headed but the thing is NOT about no em it is about the ring gap..

[kingncSTI]

and how did i make it easy for them to deny the claim, soa reps just try to get out of everything when it comes to sti's a tbe and intake which they made does not cause this.. and yes it seems most of them is untuned cars but ther is more untuned cars out there then tuned.. but the same time there is tuned cars that have broke ringlands too(gabedue) for one he is a tuner himself and it happend to him and i talked to him and he had no ringgap too.. so what you think

[302@12psi]

Originally Posted by kingncSTI

and how did i make it easy for them to deny the claim, soa reps just try to get out of everything when it comes to sti's a tbe and intake which they made does not cause this.. and yes it seems most of them is untuned cars but ther is more untuned cars out there then tuned.. but the same time there is tuned cars that have broke ringlands too(gabedue) for one he is a tuner himself and it happend to him and i talked to him and he had no ringgap too.. so what you think

I think I'm not going to get into a pissing match over something that I nor you have any control over.

You reference Gabe's car. Gabe ran the piss out of it, messed with the maps, had some insane logs, and it finally died (Not knocking Gabe...but this is all by his own admissions basically). It wasnt like he was stock or running the same setup as you. Bringing Gabe's name in here does nothing for you.

It's easy for anyone to look at a TBE and say "your motor died because _________" does that mean it's why it happened...nope. But it does give Subaru of America a legal leg to stand on.

[kingncSTI]

yea the tbe does have some things for them to help them but they have to prov that it happend but any builder knows that the ring gap is the thing that messed it up i am just trying to help everyone that has been denyed and should not have i got the money to build it and the tools to do so too.. but the thing is that soa needs to learn that they need to listen to people i got one of the head builders that works for my shop on the side to look at it and that is what he came up with to.. but anyway sorry i am not trying to get into a pissing match but gade did have some logs. but i run 93 and i am at about 100 ft so i havent had any knock i know what you are saying but i will post some pics of the ring gap on here so you can see what i am saying.

[tazer]

From what I've been reading, ANY modification of the ability for 07's to 'flow' better, will require a fuel pump at MINIMUM just to cover bases.

yes that means even just changing out the snorkus for a open element filter may cause this problem (lean condition), so a TBE GUARANTEES a lean condition that will break the engine eventually.

Theres a really interesting discussion with a subaru performance technician about the 07's and fuel (or lack there of) seems to be the problem

concerns over a lean cylinder have plagued subys from as long as I can remember (started out tuning/building a 02), but it appears the 07's are maxed out (literally) from the factory... and I agree with 302@12psi, no EM WITH a TBE.. yeah... not a wise choice. It may have been do-able on previous Model Years with few failures, but seems the 07's are VERY VERY susceptable to "mods causing lean conditions"

Mod order for 07's from what I have gathered in my limited research/reading of others research....:

1st Mod: Upgraded fuel pump ($100-150.00 insurance, no tune required)
2nd Mod: EM (personal recommendation: Cobb AP, Stage 1)
3rd Mod: TBE (personal recommendation: Cobb AP, Stage 2 - better yet PDX e-tune)
4th Mod: Injectors (740cc to maintain idle and room for turbo upgrade/growth)
4th Mod: PROTUNE (personnal recommendation: PDX)
+4th Mod: (optional): Upgraded TMIC, or FMIC
+4th Mod: (optional): Up-Pipe (personal recommendation: not needed)
+4th Mod: (optional): Headers (personal recommendation: EL to ease concerns over lean cylinder - attributed to UEL stock manifold - I have the Perrin EL)

You will notice that I don't include a short-ram or CAI in this list.
If I were to advocate one, I'd say to do it in the +4th Mod: realm as an option since the tuner will have to compensate for the changes in intake characteristics.

All of this is just my 2c, but appears to be (based on tuning days here in Hawaii, and the reported lean/blown ring lands from detonation) the safest route for 07's and possibly all Model Years,....