Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil

FlyinbySTi · 11-13-2007, 11:19 AM

Ok, so interesting story...I took the STi in for it's 90K service and a CEL that came on the night before. I was driving home on the highway cruise on at 70mph. The cruise kicked off and got the CEL went home and plugging the AP got a P0011 code :Cam position - Timing over advance (bank1)

I really have no idea what that means lol, and have read all the threads we have on IWSTI about it but still figured I would have the dealer look at it while it's there.

So they seem to have come to the conclusion that my Amsoil series 2000 0W30 which I have been running since 35K (with regular change intervals) is the cause of the problem. Hmm, so let me think about this I have been running Synthetic oil for the past 60K miles that is just not causes a check engine like.

They say there is a TSB for Subaru's recommending that you do not run Synthetic oil in our engines. So I have asked for a copy of this when I pick up the car this after noon. I also have to sign a paper that is the engine blows up becuase of synthetic that it's all on me lol.....90K I don't see subaru giving me much help either way.

I'll update you will my findings tonight when I get back.

Anyone else have thoughts or recommendations.

emanteno · 11-13-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyinbySTi

Anyone else have thoughts or recommendations.

When I got my oil change at the dealer, they offered semi synthetic as well as full synthetic oil as alternatives/upgrades to dino oil.

holycow · 11-13-2007, 12:46 PM

strange... my service advisor also told me not to run synthetic in the 2.5 boxer. I don't see how it could adversly affect the engine in any way shape or form.

302@12psi · 11-13-2007, 01:39 PM

I'd like to see the TSB.

There latest one that I've seen said to increase intervals up to 3,500 miles and Syn is fine as long as it meets the requirements (API).

FlyinbySTi · 11-13-2007, 02:10 PM

Apparently there is a TSB.... Bulletin # 02-101-07 date 02/28/07 But just like anything else it says that if it meets or exceeds the American Petroleum Institute quialifications then it will not cuase engine damage.

So I put the Amsoil back in and will keep driving it. I guess I'll just see if the CEL comes back or not and make a decision whether to swith back or not. They said for an 05' with 90,000mi on it, my car is looking really good, cleaner then some 20K STi's they see in there

that made me feel good.

I'll let everyone know if

http://www.thel7.com/TSB/02-101-07.pdf

STI_Mike · 11-13-2007, 02:16 PM

why do they offer synthetic oil at the dealership if it's not good for the car then?

FlyinbySTi · 11-13-2007, 02:23 PM

lol, I really just view the TSB as there cop out for not knowing what caused the CEL and now the CEL is gone so they aren't worried

302@12psi · 11-13-2007, 02:52 PM

That TSB doesnt say you cant use Syn.

It states it must fit the API requirements and the interval is lowered from 5k.

Subaru would have to do a recall on their owners manual to state not to use Syn.

I think Subaru gets this "non syn" (or rather the dealers do) from the people who think they can go 10-15k without changing it.

Blackfang · 11-13-2007, 04:02 PM

The problem with people using synthetic is that they think they can go longer on their oil change intervals. That is not always the case with a turbo engine. What many do not know is that inside the turbo there is a filter screen in one of the screws and if this gets clogged, bye bye turbo. We have seen this a few times and nothing we could do for the customer. This is why I do not tell my customers to do extended drain intervals. 3750 mile oil changes.

I had a customer with a turbo Baja and they had a CEL and it turned out the cam timing was off. Something with a valve in the cylinder head that controls the valve timing and runs off oil pressure. Well it had a loss of oil pressure(possibly due to dirt in the oil or something) and that had changed causing the cel to come on. We changed the oil, no more CEL. The culprit? Customer using Amsoil and changing it every 15k miles.

allwheelsdriven · 11-13-2007, 04:15 PM

personally people who change their oil every 15k deserve what they get....this car isnt some NA Buick or Corolla that can be abused like that

FlyinbySTi · 11-13-2007, 04:58 PM

Hmm, wonder why amsoil claims you can go so long between oil changes when using their filter and oil.
I find it odd that I have been doing this for 65K now and it never happened before this one time. Changed the oil and cleared the CEL it went away. I will see if it comes back tomorrow or any time in the future.

Quote:

turbo Baja and they had a CEL and it turned out the cam timing was off. Something with a valve in the cylinder head that controls the valve timing and runs off oil pressure. Well it had a loss of oil pressure(possibly due to dirt in the oil or something) and that had changed causing the cel to come on. We changed the oil, no more CEL.

This is good info here, I will mention it to my buddys also who are running amsoil on extended intervals.

**Turninconcepts.com** · 11-13-2007, 05:40 PM

There's a small screen in one of the banjo bolts for filtering. The banjo bolt just happens to be the one that feeds the AVCS. That screen also just so happens to break down slowing flow of oil to the cam positioning for AVCS.

Pull that screen and see what happens (I believe there's been a TSB on this issue).

FlyinbySTi · 11-13-2007, 06:39 PM

I mentioned to then about the AVCS and the filter possibly being clogged and to check it. I don't know if they checked it though. Is there a how to somewhere for it. I looked but couldn't find it.

***SiCkSTi04*** · 11-13-2007, 06:55 PM

is this TSB before or after they started selling SPT parts like intakes....exhausts....

i like this..

Quote:

When the vehicle is used under severe driving conditions, moderate to hard acceleration on a somewhat regular basis, the engine oil and filter should be changed every 3,750 miles (6,000 km) or 3.75 months

hard conditions and i still can get an extra 750 miles w00t! haha

Quote:

If super-premium
unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 93 AKI is not available, premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 AKI or higher may be temporarily used

ummmmm

Blackfang · 11-14-2007, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyinbySTi

Hmm, wonder why amsoil claims you can go so long between oil changes when using their filter and oil.

There is a difference between a turbo engine design of manufacturers and a NA engine. Subaru built your engine and recommends the service intervals and offers the warranty on it, not Amsoil. I have seen some NA engine's( mainly the 2.7 in the dodge intrepid) go south due to using Amsoil and it's extended drain intervals.

Even if I did run Amsoil in my Cobra and LS1. It definately would not be in it for more than 6,000 miles.

11-13-2007, 11:19 AM	#1
FlyinbySTi Silver Member Car: 05' STi Fav Mod: JDM Fogs Posts: 2,393 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil Ok, so interesting story...I took the STi in for it's 90K service and a CEL that came on the night before. I was driving home on the highway cruise on at 70mph. The cruise kicked off and got the CEL went home and plugging the AP got a P0011 code :Cam position - Timing over advance (bank1) I really have no idea what that means lol, and have read all the threads we have on IWSTI about it but still figured I would have the dealer look at it while it's there. So they seem to have come to the conclusion that my Amsoil series 2000 0W30 which I have been running since 35K (with regular change intervals) is the cause of the problem. Hmm, so let me think about this I have been running Synthetic oil for the past 60K miles that is just not causes a check engine like. They say there is a TSB for Subaru's recommending that you do not run Synthetic oil in our engines. So I have asked for a copy of this when I pick up the car this after noon. I also have to sign a paper that is the engine blows up becuase of synthetic that it's all on me lol.....90K I don't see subaru giving me much help either way. I'll update you will my findings tonight when I get back. Anyone else have thoughts or recommendations. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

11-13-2007, 12:46 PM	#3
holycow Spec C Club Car: 07 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Stage 2 :D Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 1,043 Join Date: Mar 2007 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil strange... my service advisor also told me not to run synthetic in the 2.5 boxer. I don't see how it could adversly affect the engine in any way shape or form.

11-13-2007, 01:39 PM	#4
302@12psi Junior STI Driver Car: 2008 EX35 Location: Maryland Posts: 103 Join Date: Oct 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil I'd like to see the TSB. There latest one that I've seen said to increase intervals up to 3,500 miles and Syn is fine as long as it meets the requirements (API).

11-13-2007, 02:10 PM	#5
FlyinbySTi Silver Member Car: 05' STi Fav Mod: JDM Fogs Posts: 2,393 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil Apparently there is a TSB.... Bulletin # 02-101-07 date 02/28/07 But just like anything else it says that if it meets or exceeds the American Petroleum Institute quialifications then it will not cuase engine damage. So I put the Amsoil back in and will keep driving it. I guess I'll just see if the CEL comes back or not and make a decision whether to swith back or not. They said for an 05' with 90,000mi on it, my car is looking really good, cleaner then some 20K STi's they see in there that made me feel good. I'll let everyone know if http://www.thel7.com/TSB/02-101-07.pdf

11-13-2007, 02:16 PM	#6
STI_Mike S204 Racer Car: 05 Aspen White STI Fav Mod: Defi Gauges Location: Laguna Niguel,Ca Posts: 2,920 Join Date: Jul 2006 Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil why do they offer synthetic oil at the dealership if it's not good for the car then?

11-13-2007, 02:23 PM	#7
FlyinbySTi Silver Member Car: 05' STi Fav Mod: JDM Fogs Posts: 2,393 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil lol, I really just view the TSB as there cop out for not knowing what caused the CEL and now the CEL is gone so they aren't worried

11-13-2007, 02:52 PM	#8
302@12psi Junior STI Driver Car: 2008 EX35 Location: Maryland Posts: 103 Join Date: Oct 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil That TSB doesnt say you cant use Syn. It states it must fit the API requirements and the interval is lowered from 5k. Subaru would have to do a recall on their owners manual to state not to use Syn. I think Subaru gets this "non syn" (or rather the dealers do) from the people who think they can go 10-15k without changing it.

11-13-2007, 04:02 PM	#9
Blackfang Senior STI Driver Car: Silver 07 Legacy Location: Somewhere in the universe Posts: 349 Join Date: Mar 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil The problem with people using synthetic is that they think they can go longer on their oil change intervals. That is not always the case with a turbo engine. What many do not know is that inside the turbo there is a filter screen in one of the screws and if this gets clogged, bye bye turbo. We have seen this a few times and nothing we could do for the customer. This is why I do not tell my customers to do extended drain intervals. 3750 mile oil changes. I had a customer with a turbo Baja and they had a CEL and it turned out the cam timing was off. Something with a valve in the cylinder head that controls the valve timing and runs off oil pressure. Well it had a loss of oil pressure(possibly due to dirt in the oil or something) and that had changed causing the cel to come on. We changed the oil, no more CEL. The culprit? Customer using Amsoil and changing it every 15k miles.

11-13-2007, 04:15 PM	#10
allwheelsdriven Spec C Club Car: 04 WRB STi Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,176 Join Date: Jan 2004 Trader Rating: (3)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil personally people who change their oil every 15k deserve what they get....this car isnt some NA Buick or Corolla that can be abused like that

11-13-2007, 05:40 PM	#12
Turninconcepts.com Authorized Vendor Car: 04/08STI 95SVX 86E30 Posts: 5,070 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (53)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil There's a small screen in one of the banjo bolts for filtering. The banjo bolt just happens to be the one that feeds the AVCS. That screen also just so happens to break down slowing flow of oil to the cam positioning for AVCS. Pull that screen and see what happens (I believe there's been a TSB on this issue).

11-13-2007, 06:39 PM	#13
FlyinbySTi Silver Member Car: 05' STi Fav Mod: JDM Fogs Posts: 2,393 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Subaru tells me don't us Synthetic oil I mentioned to then about the AVCS and the filter possibly being clogged and to check it. I don't know if they checked it though. Is there a how to somewhere for it. I looked but couldn't find it.