Tuner lugs on stock BBS?

ReCoRdTiMe · 06-10-2008, 12:22 AM

Is it OK to use tuner lugs with stock BBS?

**tyler_sti** · 06-10-2008, 01:09 AM

Search, there have been many threads on this topic recently. As long as their the same thread pitch and design, you should be fine

white04sti · 06-10-2008, 04:52 AM

i would not i just ruined a set of project kics on my stock bbs, the bottom part wont spin anymore since the taper is different

cekeel · 06-10-2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white04sti

i would not i just ruined a set of project kics on my stock bbs, the bottom part wont spin anymore since the taper is different

Really?! Wow... sorry to hear that. I was pretty close to buying a set myself. Could you post some pics of the lugs showing what happened to them?

white04sti · 06-10-2008, 06:09 AM

well the worst part was that a friend said i could use them( they are his) he bought 2 sets for his car so that he may have 2 locks on each wheels so he let me run he extra's so i had a set without locks but i will try to get pics of them up tonight

ReCoRdTiMe · 06-10-2008, 09:25 AM

How can I compare the thread pitch?

Dirty Bird 15 · 06-10-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white04sti

i would not i just ruined a set of project kics on my stock bbs, the bottom part wont spin anymore since the taper is different

Hahaa, hate to be a douche but, I told you so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReCoRdTiMe

Is it OK to use tuner lugs with stock BBS?

As for you, No. Take note from white04sti, and this thread. Please search next time.

Kics R26 Neo Chro Lug Nuts?

azndrgnkid · 06-11-2008, 11:31 AM

I read a few threads on here before that says it's not a good idea at all. Due to the fact the taper is different, the result is a problem. If you have stock BBS, use stock OEM lugs. If you have aftermarket rims, use tuner lugs. Mixing stock BBS with tuner lugs or aftermarket rims with stock lugs will get you in trouble.

white04sti · 06-11-2008, 04:03 PM

here are the pics

Maverick31 · 06-11-2008, 04:30 PM

Any idea where I could get some stock BBS lugs?

WESTI · 06-11-2008, 06:09 PM

you can use mcgard spline drives but im not sure those are classified as "tuner" lug nuts

cglitso · 06-12-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTI

you can use mcgard spline drives but im not sure those are classified as "tuner" lug nuts

I use the same mcgard lugs as you westi, in black with no problems. Mcgard actually makes the stock lug locks for Subaru.

Maverick31 · 06-12-2008, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cglitso

I use the same mcgard lugs as you westi, in black with no problems. Mcgard actually makes the stock lug locks for Subaru.

Can you link me to them?

cglitso · 06-12-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick31

Can you link me to them?

Here is a thread discussing tuner lugs with a response from SOA about the 60 degree taper that the BBS wheels require

McGard Spline lugs on Stock 08 BBS Wheels?

Here is where I purchased mine. I got the locks with the set, you don't have to but I like the peace of mind. They shipped really fast also.

Black McGard Lug Nuts; 20 piece kit with LOCKS; 12mm x 1.25

***sciolist*** · 06-12-2008, 11:52 AM

There are several different common seat configurations used on lug nuts. So-called "tuner" lugs typically have tapered seats, and their taper pitch is typically 60*, so the answer to OP's question is, 'probably'.

Looking at the photos in Post #9, it appears that the problem is not the seat pitch, but the composition of the lug. I believe those lugs are of composite construction, with the seat bearing surface being AL. The OE BBS's have steel seats, and they are rather shallow, so I suspect the lightweight lugs are galling against the steel seats. This would be one example of why lightweight lugs are kind of an idiotic idea, but let's not bother with that here.

I first ran into this issue years ago with my Honda. I had several different sets of wheels that I wanted to use for a variety of purposes, and did not want to crap around with swapping lugs all the time. I had OE wheels with bulge (concave) seats, steel winter wheels and AL race/summer wheels with deep tapered seats machined directly into the forged AL wheel. The OE bulge lugs (convex) worked fine with the steelies. They contact the seats at a tangent, but that's okay because both the wheel and lug are steel. The bulge lugs do not work with the tapered AL seats though, because the wheels are too soft to support tangent bearing (kind of the opposite of what's going on in Post #9). The answer to all of this was just to get a set of steel tapered lugs for use with all three types of wheels.

I swap wheels a lot on my STi, and use different spacer arrangements, so I have extended, hardened studs. I just use 60* steel nuts on the STi, and they work fine with summer, winter and race wheels.

If you look closely at an OE Subaru lug, you'll see that it is actually a tapered seat, not a bulge (as confirmed above).

If you're swapping a lot, and maybe wanting to use an elevated amount of torque (for example, with race tires), you don't want soft lugs. My advice is to use hard studs (like ARP's) and then good, solid, steel lugs (softer than the stud, so if you bugger the threads it'll be in the nut, not the stud), but still plenty hard for durability.

AL threads in lug nuts are completely stupid. Apparently, AL lug seats don't work too well either, unless they are mated to deep-seated wheels.

Buy yourself a good old $30 set of *real* race lugs, and spend the extra money on something that'll actually make you faster.

06-10-2008, 12:22 AM	#1
ReCoRdTiMe Amateur STI Driver Car: 04 WRX Fav Mod: Booster Seat Location: Canada, GTA Posts: 48 Join Date: Apr 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Tuner lugs on stock BBS? Is it OK to use tuner lugs with stock BBS? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

06-10-2008, 01:09 AM	#2
tyler_sti Gold Member Car: '07 CMG STI Fav Mod: Not knowing how to "spell" hah Location: los angeles Posts: 3,736 Join Date: Aug 2006 Trader Rating: (15)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? Search, there have been many threads on this topic recently. As long as their the same thread pitch and design, you should be fine

06-10-2008, 04:52 AM	#3
white04sti Grassroots STI Racer Fav Mod: topspeed protuned Location: miami FL Posts: 524 Join Date: Nov 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? i would not i just ruined a set of project kics on my stock bbs, the bottom part wont spin anymore since the taper is different

06-10-2008, 06:09 AM	#5
white04sti Grassroots STI Racer Fav Mod: topspeed protuned Location: miami FL Posts: 524 Join Date: Nov 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? well the worst part was that a friend said i could use them( they are his) he bought 2 sets for his car so that he may have 2 locks on each wheels so he let me run he extra's so i had a set without locks but i will try to get pics of them up tonight

06-10-2008, 09:25 AM	#6
ReCoRdTiMe Amateur STI Driver Car: 04 WRX Fav Mod: Booster Seat Location: Canada, GTA Posts: 48 Join Date: Apr 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? How can I compare the thread pitch?

06-11-2008, 11:31 AM	#8
azndrgnkid Junior STI Driver Car: 07' OBP STi Location: Corona, Cali Posts: 118 Join Date: Mar 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? I read a few threads on here before that says it's not a good idea at all. Due to the fact the taper is different, the result is a problem. If you have stock BBS, use stock OEM lugs. If you have aftermarket rims, use tuner lugs. Mixing stock BBS with tuner lugs or aftermarket rims with stock lugs will get you in trouble.

06-11-2008, 04:03 PM	#9
white04sti Grassroots STI Racer Fav Mod: topspeed protuned Location: miami FL Posts: 524 Join Date: Nov 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? here are the pics

06-11-2008, 04:30 PM	#10
Maverick31 Grassroots STI Racer Car: Blue 2006 WRX STi Fav Mod: Protuned Stage 2 Location: Port Huron, Michigan Posts: 547 Join Date: Mar 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? Any idea where I could get some stock BBS lugs?

06-11-2008, 06:09 PM	#11
WESTI I'm Jim Halpert Car: 06 WRB STI Fav Mod: Ricer Flyby Location: Irvine, Ca Posts: 6,313 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (9)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? you can use mcgard spline drives but im not sure those are classified as "tuner" lug nuts

06-12-2008, 11:52 AM	#15
*sciolist* Spiteful Old Codger Location: Bend, OR Posts: 2,345 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Tuner lugs on stock BBS? There are several different common seat configurations used on lug nuts. So-called "tuner" lugs typically have tapered seats, and their taper pitch is typically 60, so the answer to OP's question is, 'probably'. Looking at the photos in Post #9, it appears that the problem is not the seat pitch, but the composition of the lug. I believe those lugs are of composite construction, with the seat bearing surface being AL. The OE BBS's have steel seats, and they are rather shallow, so I suspect the lightweight lugs are galling against the steel seats. This would be one example of why lightweight lugs are kind of an idiotic idea, but let's not bother with that here. I first ran into this issue years ago with my Honda. I had several different sets of wheels that I wanted to use for a variety of purposes, and did not want to crap around with swapping lugs all the time. I had OE wheels with bulge (concave) seats, steel winter wheels and AL race/summer wheels with deep tapered seats machined directly into the forged AL wheel. The OE bulge lugs (convex) worked fine with the steelies. They contact the seats at a tangent, but that's okay because both the wheel and lug are steel. The bulge lugs do not work with the tapered AL seats though, because the wheels are too soft to support tangent bearing (kind of the opposite of what's going on in Post #9). The answer to all of this was just to get a set of steel tapered lugs for use with all three types of wheels. I swap wheels a lot on my STi, and use different spacer arrangements, so I have extended, hardened studs. I just use 60 steel nuts on the STi, and they work fine with summer, winter and race wheels. If you look closely at an OE Subaru lug, you'll see that it is actually a tapered seat, not a bulge (as confirmed above). If you're swapping a lot, and maybe wanting to use an elevated amount of torque (for example, with race tires), you don't want soft lugs. My advice is to use hard studs (like ARP's) and then good, solid, steel lugs (softer than the stud, so if you bugger the threads it'll be in the nut, not the stud), but still plenty hard for durability. AL threads in lug nuts are completely stupid. Apparently, AL lug seats don't work too well either, unless they are mated to deep-seated wheels. Buy yourself a good old $30 set of real race lugs, and spend the extra money on something that'll actually make you faster. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.