[EtoS]

Wanna know what you should do? Call P&L up and ask them those exact questions and you'll get the right answers without worry. No one is gonna know more then your tuner. And if you want a reason why the STi's map sucks is cause of the EPA. They have regulations to follow in the tuning. Hard to meet those, make it good in all weather climates, be able to use cali 91 octane and still get 305HP. Yeah it's not such a bad map really.

Also to the response that a dealer is gonna reflash your map. What kind of dealer do you go to? That's just as bad as them changing your saved radio stations and CD and Nav settings. There's no reason for them to take the extra time to reflash it if you're going in for brakes or something. And if it's cause the engine went- well it's not like it wouldn't be his fault for using an OTS map in such ranges. And they wouldn't reflash it they would say hey "your engine broke CAUSE you aftermarketed it with a bad map" as proof not to cover it.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Slimey

Answering my own thread - feel free to comment.

Just read through a bunch of Cobb forums as well as some more on nabisco and here.

My take home messages -

• It looks like 1000s of AccessPorts have been sold.
• Complaints about danger from OTS maps are rare and for any issues noted, Cobb has been helpful in improving. Most issues (creep) have been for Stage II; Stage I seems pretty safe.
• If anything, Cobb or Perrin OTS maps are conservative and safe and account for a wide range of environment (including ambient temperature); protunes are specific for a given car and environment.
• I can potentially datalog after I get an AccessPort and perhaps help figure out if a protune would be necessary. (not 100% sure on this one as I don't really understand what one is looking at when datalogging, but I'm sure someone here can help)
• Although there are a number of ways to protune, the AccessPort method seems to be the most user friendly for someone like me.
• '07+ engines have blown 1) stock, 2) with OTS maps, and 3) protuned. Once again, seems too random and/or other details are too sketchy to state that one version is riskier than another...except for what is said about the stock tune.
• While I'd like to not believe that SOA/FHI gave us a bad tune, or that if one was noted it would be replaced by a better tune/version upgrade, I do realize that they are ultimately a business and if risk/liability exposure is << benefit/profit, then they'll absorb the financial or Page Ranking cost of the problems.

All that being said, there really seems to be little argument against an AccessPort apart from the enigma of warranty resolution should one be faced with that situation.

Slimy, those are some very good posts and some needed answerers. I am somewhat in the same boat as you and trying to wrap my head around the idiosyncrasies of the Subaru engines.

I don't even know what type of engine management Subaru uses, but I am holding out for them to announce the MY09's before I make my decision. I cannot understand why they would have to have such a poor tune to meet regulations... I guess they really need to go DFI.

I will break-in my car and if some sort of data-logging becomes avail I will buy and observe. When i get about 5k miles I will make the 3h trek to Jorge @ P & L in Chi town and have him work me up a conservative tune.

If I end up keeping the car more than 2 years i will start to modify for ultimate efficiency before I touch the boost/internals/bolt-ons. For some reason, I sorta like the rough/crude ECU the STi has, although I think Subaru really needs to refine their engine management.

Anyone know what ECU module they use (Siemens?)




-Garrett

[ChrisGene]

Originally Posted by EtoS

Also to the response that a dealer is gonna reflash your map. What kind of dealer do you go to? That's just as bad as them changing your saved radio stations and CD and Nav settings. There's no reason for them to take the extra time to reflash it if you're going in for brakes or something.

I have had other dealers (chevy) reflash my ECU because updated/fix maps have come out. I took my Suburban in and found out Chevy had a different map to modify transmission shifting. Maybe they found a problem that could be fixed before damage occurs.

[Slimey]

Originally Posted by ChrisGene

I have had other dealers (chevy) reflash my ECU because updated/fix maps have come out. I took my Suburban in and found out Chevy had a different map to modify transmission shifting. Maybe they found a problem that could be fixed before damage occurs.

Perusing more threads, I found that some with early 2007s were reflashed by the dealer.

I'm really riding the fence here. I might do what Garrett is planning: keep stock, datalog, interpret, and then consider future engine management. I'll also give try Jorge/P&L a call this week for their opinion regarding a Stage I tune (pro or OTS) versus stock.

Some good stuff in this thread.

[yakkosmurf]

I've also done a lot of reading on the subject, and recently decided Cobb Stage 1 was the right choice for my '08 STI. I didn't like what I was seeing with the stock tune, and I was better off with Stage 1. Still waiting to gather more data about Stage 2. I'll likely wait until the car is out of warranty. I'm also not too sure about running Stage 2 without a pro tune.

I'm still breaking in my STI, so we'll see how it goes. I ran stage 1 on my '05 WRX, and when they inspected the car for a trade in, they didn't notice anything after unmarrying the AP. I expect the same to work for this setup if I have any issues.

[Slimey]

Took a spirited run to work this morning in S mode/VCD green/DCCD auto minus - no one on the road so I got to tap into more of the power band.

Car is pretty smooth throughout. I noted no stumbles or rough running, just a kick in the pants of power 3200-3500 or so.

Changed the oil on Friday night and it was clear and clean. Granted I only have about 1100 miles on the car.

My car has a production date of 4/08 and was ordered post Stop Sale. Could I have a different tune then the early MY08 cars? I suppose datalogging is still my answer, but I wonder if there is any way to check a version of the ECU? Thoughts?

[nytejade]

If you want reliability don't go with an off the shelf map. Save your money until you do some real modifications like a downpipe, then get a professional tune.

All cars are different, and OTS maps may not always work. I had consistent overboost issues with the Stage 1 OTS map. Since my primary concern is also reliability, I removed the map and returned the AP.

My 2 cents.

[yakkosmurf]

^^^
Which version of the Stage 1 OTS map did you use? I'm still breaking my '08 STI in, so I haven't run it hard to see the boost numbers I'm getting.

[nytejade]

93 Octane Cobb map.

[Slimey]

Originally Posted by nytejade

If you want reliability don't go with an off the shelf map. Save your money until you do some real modifications like a downpipe, then get a professional tune.

All cars are different, and OTS maps may not always work. I had consistent overboost issues with the Stage 1 OTS map. Since my primary concern is also reliability, I removed the map and returned the AP.

My 2 cents.

I'll give you 4 cents for those 2 cents. Information I'm (and I'm sure others) are looking for.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally Posted by nytejade

93 Octane Cobb map.

Sorry for not being clear. I meant version number. 1.00 or 1.01?

[nytejade]

1.01, and still had issues.

[topper]

I'm pretty much forced to use a AP, because there isn't anybody to tune it where I live. I would like to know if anybody knows somebody in NC, and GA.

[k38s]

[quote
Based upon the reported results in WRXGuyInUSA's poll, tracked cars have a failure rate that is 379% that of the non-tracked cars in the poll. The failure rate for tracked cars is roughly 14 - 15%. That's too high in my opinion for me to risk taking it to the track. (Not implying that all the above-referenced cars broke at the track or anything like that just that past track usage was reportedly a common denominator.)
Gary[/quote]

You nailed it Gary, and this is why after a lot of debate I have decided to get a AP and protune. If I had not been bit by the track bug I would just leave the car stock. But since I plan on tracking the car a few times a year (see you at Heartland Park in Oct.) I think that an ounce of prevention is worth the pound of cure.

Take care,

[upncummr]

Originally Posted by k38s

You nailed it Gary, and this is why after a lot of debate I have decided to get a AP and protune. If I had not been bit by the track bug I would just leave the car stock. But since I plan on tracking the car a few times a year (see you at Heartland Park in Oct.) I think that an ounce of prevention is worth the pound of cure.

Take care,

Dan:

I think if I purchased an '08 and planned on taking it to the track, I'd have to bite the bullet and either go with an AccessPort and/or a pro-tune. As hard as it may be to forego the warranty coverage, it's may be even harder to run the risk of a major engine failure by continuing to run the factory tune on track.

It's certainly a tough choice and part of the reason I've elected not to pursue getting an '08.

Hope to see you in October at HPT. I currently have conflicts on the schedule that I'm trying to work through.

By the way, make sure you come down for at least half a day on Friday so that you can grab some rides and learn the track. HPT is a great facility and we now rent a garage there and use it as our "base camp". So we're sheltered from inclement weather, etc.

bytor knows the track very well and can definitely show you a thing or two. There are also a few other instructors in STi's and you should try to grab a ride with them if possible.

Make him show you where on the track his '08's engine went to pieces.

There's also a greasy spoon diner less than a mile away that bytor and I like to go to. So we can all head down there and grab a bite as time allows. (It'll be just like MAM.)

Gary