[Joesuby]

For anyone else (not the know it alls)who may be experiencing fuel cut at 6200 RPM this may help: After speaking to Cobb I found that flashing a different Real Time map over a base map may cause issues. I had Econo mode flashed during my break-in and real time stage 1 flashed after break-in but the car didn't feel like what I'd expected and on top of that was cutting fuel at 6200RPM. This morning I flashed stage 1 as a base map, performed Vishnu reset, and I can say that I am very pleased with the results, car feels like what I expected. Again this is for those that may have had a similiar problem so "know it alls" please don't chime in with "you should have used the search" ;D

[solovus]

Originally Posted by SirMattieP

True true, but what thats no difference of people bootlegging cds,dvds... What about those employees that put their time and effort into producing a 12 month film... All to his own i guess.

Whats the difference? Gee, I don't know...maybe the fact that theres not a multi million dollar investment at stake. Please recite a law that would protect these maps. Patent? Nope. Copyright? Nope. Trademark? Nope. I hardly think these maps are the intellectual property of Perrin. They use software they didn't write to adjust known parameters to meet desired specifications and then provide a map that is a compilation of all this information so people can use it with some other companies ECU reflashing device.

I agree with Perrin wanting to make money, but this is NOTHING like the creative energy and monetary investment needed to create a file/music production. Further, I can't think of a single law that would protect the distribution of these maps.

[GilMikalian]

Originally Posted by solovus

Whats the difference? Gee, I don't know...maybe the fact that theres not a multi million dollar investment at stake. Please recite a law that would protect these maps. Patent? Nope. Copyright? Nope. Trademark? Nope. I hardly think these maps are the intellectual property of Perrin. They use software they didn't write to adjust known parameters to meet desired specifications and then provide a map that is a compilation of all this information so people can use it with some other companies ECU reflashing device.

I agree with Perrin wanting to make money, but this is NOTHING like the creative energy and monetary investment needed to create a file/music production. Further, I can't think of a single law that would protect the distribution of these maps.

From what I remember from my (c) class, you could make a VERY strong argument that the maps are a new work based on the existing map. The fact that you don't spend as much to create the maps does not make them any less protected, as far as the law is concerned anyway. And (c) law specifically proctects against distribution.

[Digitalfiend]

You know, I bought my AP from Perrin but still haven't tried their 93 octane map. Hmmm. I never bothered because I don't like the way it changes the boost for each SI mode. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Perrin restored the 7K redline in their stage 1 map?

I wonder if I should finally give it a try.

[solovus]

Originally Posted by GilMikalian

From what I remember from my (c) class, you could make a VERY strong argument that the maps are a new work based on the existing map. The fact that you don't spend as much to create the maps does not make them any less protected, as far as the law is concerned anyway. And (c) law specifically proctects against distribution.

The only IP protection I am willing to concede is possibly a patent for a novel method of tuning a motor. Copyright is definitely out as copyright is intended for creative works that aren't explicitly defined by their functional use. Perrin didn't create the map, they just tuned the map for the parameters desired. There is nothing creative about these maps and there is just no way I can see them being copyright eligible.

[solovus]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

You know, I bought my AP from Perrin but still haven't tried their 93 octane map. Hmmm. I never bothered because I don't like the way it changes the boost for each SI mode. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Perrin restored the 7K redline in their stage 1 map?

I wonder if I should finally give it a try.

Yes, the Perrin map has 7k redline.

[GilMikalian]

Originally Posted by solovus

The only IP protection I am willing to concede is possibly a patent for a novel method of tuning a motor. Copyright is definitely out as copyright is intended for creative works that aren't explicitly defined by their functional use. Perrin didn't create the map, they just tuned the map for the parameters desired. There is nothing creative about these maps and there is just no way I can see them being copyright eligible.

Well, it's not as black and white as you're making it. What I'm saying is that the if there is a code for Perrin's map, then an argument can be made that that work is protected. You saying there is nothing creative with these maps is of no moment as long as it can be shown that Perrin created it. I'm not really sure how these maps work but I'm guessing that at a minimum, Perrin must punch in the right parameters to get to the performance they want given various specifications (altitude, fuel, etc.) I'm not saying it would be a slam dunk infringement claim, but it would not be a slam dunk defense either.

[Digitalfiend]

You guys are forgetting something. Subaru could technically drop the hammer on any vendor offering reflashes for its ECU claiming unlawful reverse engineering of proprietary information, etc. I highly doubt Cobb or Perrin could ever copyright their maps because they are based on information reverse engineered from Subaru.

[waktasz]

Since when is it illegal to reprogram a computer YOU OWN?

[mattjk]

digitalfrank is correct. it is my understanding, once the car series line is discontinued, it is OK to hack, ie, 2002-2007 wrx/sti.

the guys at hondata told me this, and they will not break this copyright. notice
their application list, they only do discontinued models. Application Selection Wizard - Civic

current models show not available.

[spongebobnopants]

Originally Posted by mattjk

digitalfrank is correct. it is my understanding, once the car series line is discontinued, it is OK to hack, ie, 2002-2007 wrx/sti.

the guys at hondata told me this, and they will not break this copyright. notice
their application list, they only do discontinued models. Application Selection Wizard - Civic

current models show not available.

Interesting cause they have a re-flash for my wife's 2008 RDX. I have been trying to coordinate sneaking out the ECU and shipping it to them without her noticing.

BTW, Subaru does not even make the ECU. This is like saying you can't load Linux on a PC that came with Windows. While you might not get support there is nothing illegal about it.

Perfect example of why this is and should be legal: Bought an iphone without a long term contract. ATT service sucked and the edge service was out for weeks at a time, but apple did not offer a T-mobile version. I hacked the phone, unlocked it and am now a happy camper with full bars using
T-mobile service. Apple and ATT are loosing out huge on this and can't do a damn thing.