[BuzSTid]

agree with you completely, free revving an engine with no load really doesn't do much at all.
i am not totally sure of the loading, but as i recall, it appeared to show the engines connected to an engine dyno or a chassis dyno for the completed vehicle @ the time of testing, so static or dynamic loading may have been present. (i am going from memory as i had read the articles in various engineering publications over the years)

my break-in procedure was some where between the two extremes, running through the gears while varying the load on the engine for the first 1000 km's, inter spaced with full power pulls after the engine was up to full operating temperature. so far 9000 km's, 1/2 liter oil consumption in the first 7000 km's, no measurable oil consumption since oil change @ 7000kms

[OA4S]

Originally Posted by 07STILimited

That's why you have an owner's manual. Engines are different and the correct break in procedure will be explained in your manual. It will ALWAYS be some form of a LIGHT break in with varying engine speeds to help gently seat the rings. As for oil, if your car comes out of the factory with synthetic then obviously it will break in just fine using synthetic. If it comes out of the factory with conventional it is probably a good idea to leave it in there until the car is properly broken in so that you don't have any issues.

Thats just it, the previous manuals went through some revisions, particularly for the oil change intervals w/o a change in how the engine works. Who is to say that they didnt just slap an accepted norm in there as a suggestion rather than having backed it with intensive research? Im not trying to argue with you, I promise. Just trying to gain some perspective. I suppose what is printed in the manuals, while it CAN be outdated and more true for much older vehicles, is a method that has been proven to work. An If it aint broke, dont fix it sort of thing.

[07STILimited]

Originally Posted by OA4S

Thats just it, the previous manuals went through some revisions, particularly for the oil change intervals w/o a change in how the engine works. Who is to say that they didnt just slap an accepted norm in there as a suggestion rather than having backed it with intensive research? Im not trying to argue with you, I promise. Just trying to gain some perspective. I suppose what is printed in the manuals, while it CAN be outdated and more true for much older vehicles, is a method that has been proven to work. An If it aint broke, dont fix it sort of thing.

Oil change intervals have been extended on a lot of late model cars mainly because of advances in oil technology, not advances in engine technology. A good modern synthetic will last roughly 5 times longer than a traditional conventional oil. This might explain a change in intervals in the manual without any physical changes the engines.

If you are talking about Subaru lessoning the interval then it is a different story. They were a little too optimistic about the requirements of the turbo engines. In any case changing oil more frequently is always a good thing. Changing it every 1000 miles would be better than 3000 even though it would be expensive and would be overkill. Manufacturers have incentives to recommend longer service intervals since it is a selling point. Recommending a light break in is definitely not.

Billions in R&D is spent each year by the automotive companies. They thoroughly test each new engine and each new revision. While some may be more competent than others, I assure you they are all in a better position to give you advice than conspiracy theorists on the net. As I keep saying, when it comes to break in procedure they all agree. This is no coincidence. A light break in is best for reliability, longevity and long term performance for ALL road cars.

Don't worry about cars that come with synthetic oil not being broken in properly either. Porsche does not pay 4x as much per quart for 10 quarts of synthetic oil in every new 911 because it is going to be detrimental to the engine. If you drive a car that comes with conventional it's a good idea to keep it in there until the break in is completed though since the engine hasn't been specifically designed and tested to be broken in with synthetic oil.

[jonny427]

^^ Couldn't have said it better myself.

[brookslarry]

Originally Posted by stiboost21

+1

for some reason dealerships say to keep it under 60 mph for the 1st 1k miles

Oops I got 33 miles on my new 08. no high revs but a 100 mile per hour pull keeping the revs below 5000. Probably old school but on a hot motor that is a safe way to seat rings. lots of pressure without the high piston speed. Hope I did ok.

[YPH]

Hi all, new to forum and Subaru.

I just received my 08 STI last Thursday and it seemed to me that the car had been "broken-in" on the very same day.

Why? When I first saw the car at the showroom, it had 6km on it. On delivery, it had 32km. I asked the sales lady if she knew where these extra km came from, and she said that the technician had to 'test' it. So I think mine was already de-flowered

Any way, after 1 week, 800km later, I am noticing something.

I am not sure if this is a consequence of breaking it in hard, but I do notice that the intake, turbo and exhaust note (with S# and DCCD:Auto) get louder and louder. It's especially painfully loud when the car is pushed through the corners, uphills and both.

[stiboost21]

also car manufacturers somewhat break the engine in (about 350 miles) of each and every car before allowing it into the sales line.

[Garrett]

Can we please close this thread, before more ignorance gets strewn about..?

The guys name is "Motoman", doesn't that say enough? He doesn't wear a lab coat, isn't a master technician, so who cares what this Hick thinks, let alone his methodology.

Breaking in an engine isn't rocket science. It more about self control.

Baby your engine for the first 3,000 miles. Although, when she's warmed up occasionally load the engine, like when getting on the highway, then coast and enjoy the ride and continue to baby her. Doing this a few times a week for the first 3k will allow your engine to wear in and the full throttle blips will assure properly seated rings.

It's not a good idea to change maps or flash your engines ECU during the break in period. If you cannot wait a few weeks to break your engine in, then don't complain about anomalies later, etc.

If your super anal about things, change the oil after 1,000 miles then at 3,000. Flush the oil pan and you good for 200k with regular oil changes.





-Garrett

I have absolutely flogged every car I have ever had, but I am always very restraint and mindful of a fresh engine.

[FlashEngineer]

My question is really, should you go at all WOT at any RPM range during break in, even if it's just a few zings occasionally... because that's how I did it on my 06 WRX and it's fine... now breaking in the 08 STI and only have like 130km... didn't WOT it yet but varied RPMs...

[SirMattieP]

yeah dude you want that turbo spinningggggggggggggggggggg. How i see it is, the way you break in your car is the way its going to be. If you break it in slow its going to be slow, if you break it in hard its going to fast.

[solovus]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Can we please close this thread, before more ignorance gets strewn about..?

The guys name is "Motoman", doesn't that say enough? He doesn't wear a lab coat, isn't a master technician, so who cares what this Hick thinks, let alone his methodology.

Breaking in an engine isn't rocket science. It more about self control.

Baby your engine for the first 3,000 miles. Although, when she's warmed up occasionally load the engine, like when getting on the highway, then coast and enjoy the ride and continue to baby her. Doing this a few times a week for the first 3k will allow your engine to wear in and the full throttle blips will assure properly seated rings.

It's not a good idea to change maps or flash your engines ECU during the break in period. If you cannot wait a few weeks to break your engine in, then don't complain about anomalies later, etc.

If your super anal about things, change the oil after 1,000 miles then at 3,000. Flush the oil pan and you good for 200k with regular oil changes.





-Garrett

I have absolutely flogged every car I have ever had, but I am always very restraint and mindful of a fresh engine.

Since you feel the need to attack the opinion of hard break in you have earned questioning. What (do you believe) is the difference between a hard/easy break-in? What physical principle are you basing your opinion on? I am being confrontational, but only because I would love for someone to explain definitively (in technical terms) why hard break ins are bad for longetivity.

[FlashEngineer]

^^^^ Same, I want to understand, and I still got time.. 130KM/1600KM to go... I want to put 700-1000 by Sunday night...

[wildest5]

I'm not a professional mechanic (on cars) but i've rebuilt an engine or two and the only thing i see wrong in the first piston comparison is that the piston on the right seems to have been broken in the motomans way: Sit and really look at that piston it's pretty clean right? Where is the carbon on top of the piston, THERE IS NO CARBON at all on it

The one on the left he claims that it was blowing carbon past the bottom ring into the crank case.. ok where is the carbon below the bottom ring.

I wouldn't trust it in the least. I've heard of people doing this before but mostly it was an F1 motor or Nascar motor on a dyno. That is just my .02 on the subject.

[ReCoRdTiMe]

We also need to keep in mind that a car manufacturer will never tell you to go and brake it in hard on the freeway, imagine all the liability lawsuits from this. Also the owners manual is written for people that don't even know that you need to change oil or do any other preventative maintenance, or know what a brake in period is. So even if hard break-ins are more effective, you'll never see it in writing from any car maker on this earth. Just to prevent you from ending up on a phone pole and suing them.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by solovus

Since you feel the need to attack the opinion of hard break in you have earned questioning. What (do you believe) is the difference between a hard/easy break-in? What physical principle are you basing your opinion on? I am being confrontational, but only because I would love for someone to explain definitively (in technical terms) why hard break ins are bad for longetivity.

Because Logic dictates otherwise.

There is no reason to "seat" your rings in the way he suggests. You can easily do the same thing under normal break-in procedures.

So there is no reason to be harsh on a virgin engine, when it's not fully worked out all it's mechanical kinks and loosen up a bit. The self lapping that goes on and the excessive heat due to being new is strain enough. Why impart more stress than necessary, before the engine frees up?

A minute layer of carbon is good, it acts as a lubricant and aids in holding compression. If you don't allow this protective barrier to build up (hard break-in) then your eating away at your internals more than you should. Once all the internals are lapped-in and the oil is changed a few times to remove the production debris and metal shavings, etc... then you can safely open up the engine and increase the stress on it by going past 4,000 RPMs.

This ensures all the bearing a chance to wick any debris from their lays and get use to their environment, micro polishing or imperfections get ground down and the engine is now ready for the added stress!

I don't need to get technical, I've noticed these things since I was 8 years old and working on my BMX bikes. Two months later I take out my bearings and there are shaving, etc on new aftermarket high precision stuff. We aren't even talking about an engine. Same with my motorcycles and then my cars. Ever take an engine apart?

Moving parts tend to "wear-in" and provide their own mirror surface. Add oil and enough time (break-in period), you left with an even better micro-smooth surface. If you load up an engine before it self polishes (and hardens) then you may create gouges or wear marks before the engine has a chance to polish it's own surfaces.

This is specially true of certain parts, such as where the connecting rods meets the cranks. Additional RPMs put allot of stress in this area. It's best to let them wear-in and be as frictionless as possible, before stepping deeper into an engine.

You must consider ALL the moving parts of an engine and understand metallurgy, combustion and lubrication, before you really understand how a hard break-in isn't the best of ideas. Your engine isn't micro-honed from the factory like a blue printed racing engine. It takes about 5,000 miles before most engines loosen up. Once they do... you can beat them up knowing that you've done all you can to aid it it's longevity...!






-Garrett