[silvrbulit04]

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[PERRINJeff]

Originally Posted by Joel-STi

I'm another potential buyer curious about a tune for elevation. Would like to do stage 2 and I'm at ~5k feet. (reno) I can't get anything better than 91 around here though.

This will happen soon. I would say in a month or so. But like we have offered to others, if you buy it from us now, we will provide you with a free map when it comes out.

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

I just ordered my AP w/Perrin stage 1 93oct map. The funny thing is, I'm not sure whether I'll use the Cobb OTS map or the Perrin map. The thing I don't like about the Perrin map is that it changes the boost for S & I modes; I-mode runs on wastegate boost. I'd rather have it like stock where the boost is the same for all modes but the throttle aggressiveness is the only difference. I believe the Cobb OTS map is like this.

The nice thing about the Perrin map is that it is a 93 map tuned with 92 octane and I'll be running 94, so it should be reasonably safe, assuming all the other tuning parameters are reasonable. It was also made at sea-level, which is better for me as well since I'm at 100-250ft asl.

The funny part is that I don't even have my car yet...but I'm already modding it. lol.

Reasonably safe! That is an understatement! As time passes we will have more agressive maps for the higher octane cars. Maybe a specific 94 octane map?? I could make you one to try out that is more aggressive, but we do not have any graphs to back it up.

Originally Posted by freeman

+1
I just received my free Perrin map(93 Octane) this afternoon.I finally got a chance to test it against Cobb Stage 1 map . The perrin tuned map seems to have more torque at low end compared to Cobb's OTS map,the boost kicks in hard and early. The power delivery is very smooth.The 7k redline is also very nice,I didn't got a chance to hit it on the street though.


However,The only thing I don't like about the Perrin map is that it changes the boost for S & I modes.

Just like what Digitalfiend mentioned earlier ,I'd also prefer to have the "Si system behave like stock where Boost is the same for all modes but the throttle aggressiveness is the only difference!"

It would be nice to see another version of Perrin tuend map that retain the stock SI throttle aggressiveness switch functionality. You can probably offer both maps,so people can choose the one they prefer.

Am i listening, that is funny!
OK, i am all for change and making things different, so lets get some opinions.
But first lets explain a few things.
OEM ECU programming is such that the SI drive is a throttle only controller. Meaning it changes the relationship of the accelerator vs throttle at different RPM points. But overall boost is the same as is power.
I- provides a very slow accelerator vs throttle relationship. This makes for better gas mileage because your essentially not flooring as much while driving around.
S-more aggressive than I at lower accelerator inputs.
S#-More aggressive than S at lower accelerator inputs.

Our mapping uses the 3 different modes for 3 different boost levels.
I- Is set to 9psi, which is boost control is nearly turned off. Same less aggressive in the lower RPM and lower accelerator positions. From 6000RPM on up the throttle starts to close. So super super good gas mileage mode.
S-Set to about 16psi, same low end throttle response as stock S# setting, but more aggressive at really low RPM.
S#-Set to 18psi, Same low end throttle resonse as stock S#.

So from there, what do YOU guys want? We want to keep things consistent for all of our future maps, and now is a good time to nail that down. Opinions please, and if you have a reason for your idea, please put that also.

[CFar]

Jeff: I think some people may be confused about the SI drive (I was, ok still am) because the SPECB goes off the wastegate spring for the I mode and has some effect on throttle and what not.

With that said I think you (Perrin) are headed in the right direction with the mapping ideas for the SI drive but would suggest a slightly more effecient I mode map if possible. Perhaps limiting the throttle to max out at 75% in addition to the boost max of 9 psi. Maybe even adjusting fuel to lean out a bit at part throttle.

[jph]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

Our mapping uses the 3 different modes for 3 different boost levels.
I- Is set to 9psi, which is boost control is nearly turned off. Same less aggressive in the lower RPM and lower accelerator positions. From 6000RPM on up the throttle starts to close. So super super good gas mileage mode.
S-Set to about 16psi, same low end throttle response as stock S# setting, but more aggressive at really low RPM.
S#-Set to 18psi, Same low end throttle resonse as stock S#.

So from there, what do YOU guys want? We want to keep things consistent for all of our future maps, and now is a good time to nail that down. Opinions please, and if you have a reason for your idea, please put that also.

this is just *my* opinion, if i'm lost in the big mass of other opinions that are different, that's OK but while i have your attention; my ideal perrin map would look something like this;

I : as described above, low boost, slow throttle response. basically, a great stop&go commuter map.
S : same throttle response as the OEM mapping. not as aggressive as the S#. more "normal" throttle response. high boost.
S# : sharp and aggressive throttle response. high boost.
and all of this will be safe to run on california 91 octane.

it would also be nice if perrin could couple their maps when you buy bolt on parts.
a header map, a downpipe map, a turboback map, or a full header, up-pipe, downpipe catback map. etc..etc.. just someting to keep you going until you gan get a pro-tune


J.

[Subw00er]

I would just like to see "I mode" stay as stock as possible. Do what you want with the other modes!

This sort of reminds me of the C4 Corvette ZR1 we used to have. You could turn a knob and turn off half of the cylinders ("valet" mode I guess). With the flick of a switch you get POWER! I just think thats so... neat!

[BuzSTid]

Jeff, I think your current direction for the maps is perfect for my requirements. I'll have to wait until i get an access port from you to validate with the butt dyno though, prolly order one in a month or so. once I'm finished my break-in

[JWA]

I like the current direction. Make "I" a super economy low boost mode, "S#" the full-on rager, and "S" somewhere in-between.

[Digitalfiend]

Hmm I must be in the minority. I prefer I, S, S# to retain stock-like throttle adjustments, same boost for all modes though. I guess I don't see a point of wastegate boost for I mode. If gas mileage is a concern, use part throttle (or something like 1/4 throttle after I-mode "adjusts it") which will result in minimal boost. S would be normal throttle and S# would be "enhanced" throttle sensitivity.

[PERRINJeff]

Originally Posted by CFar

Jeff: I think some people may be confused about the SI drive (I was, ok still am) because the SPECB goes off the wastegate spring for the I mode and has some effect on throttle and what not.

With that said I think you (Perrin) are headed in the right direction with the mapping ideas for the SI drive but would suggest a slightly more effecient I mode map if possible. Perhaps limiting the throttle to max out at 75% in addition to the boost max of 9 psi. Maybe even adjusting fuel to lean out a bit at part throttle.

You are correct I drive on the Spec B does change boost. This is not something knew as i never used the I on our car. Its no fun!

On the super efficient I mode, that is what we were trying to do by changing the boost level and by sort of dropping the redline. There is no way to change the AFR at this point. But that also could be done in the future.
You can't limit the throttle to max out, but you can limit the boost. Because even at 75% throttle, you can build plenty of boost. BUt i understand your thought, which is a good one.

Originally Posted by jph

this is just *my* opinion, if i'm lost in the big mass of other opinions that are different, that's OK but while i have your attention; my ideal perrin map would look something like this;

I : as described above, low boost, slow throttle response. basically, a great stop&go commuter map.
S : same throttle response as the OEM mapping. not as aggressive as the S#. more "normal" throttle response. high boost.
S# : sharp and aggressive throttle response. high boost.
and all of this will be safe to run on california 91 octane.

it would also be nice if perrin could couple their maps when you buy bolt on parts.
a header map, a downpipe map, a turboback map, or a full header, up-pipe, downpipe catback map. etc..etc.. just someting to keep you going until you gan get a pro-tune


J.

So got it, your vote is same boost for both the S and S#. I will keep this in mind.
Regarding the map when you buy a part, this is in the works. Because this is all still a little new for us, we are working through alot of ideas how to make this work and work efficiently.

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I would just like to see "I mode" stay as stock as possible. Do what you want with the other modes!

This sort of reminds me of the C4 Corvette ZR1 we used to have. You could turn a knob and turn off half of the cylinders ("valet" mode I guess). With the flick of a switch you get POWER! I just think thats so... neat!

Nice so we should make a switch to run on 2 cylinders! Talk about a boxer sound!

Originally Posted by JWA

I like the current direction. Make "I" a super economy low boost mode, "S#" the full-on rager, and "S" somewhere in-between.

Got it!

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

Hmm I must be in the minority. I prefer I, S, S# to retain stock-like throttle adjustments, same boost for all modes though. I guess I don't see a point of wastegate boost for I mode. If gas mileage is a concern, use part throttle (or something like 1/4 throttle after I-mode "adjusts it") which will result in minimal boost. S would be normal throttle and S# would be "enhanced" throttle sensitivity.

Yes, most of us know that your foot is the best way to better fuel economy. But we all have others that drive the car, and may not want them to make too much power. Like wives, girlfriends, and for the ladies, husbands.

In the end, as our AP mapping grows, we may offers lots of different versions, but for now we are trying to keep this to a minimum and settle on something that suites 99% of our customers needs.

Keep the suggestions coming!

[Subw00er]

BTW, I really like how the boosts vary between S and S# modes. When I feel like going a little faster but dont want to beat on the car - or if my wife takes and doesnt shift all that great or drive the car optimally (sorry honey ), at least I know shes not at full boost when that stuff is happening. And because it defaults to S mode, I think its a good idea to keep that a little more tame because I imagine driving most of the time in S. I guess in my mind, keeping the boost the same on S and S# sort of defeats the purpose if all you're changing is throttle mapping.

To summarize (and agree with the other fellow on here), I like how "I mode" stays relatively stock, S# is balls out and S is somewhere in the middle.

Jeff, perhaps it makes sense to start a poll in a new thread so everyone can cast their vote - that is, if you can logically summarize all of the differing opinions! BTW, dont forget the "I dont care" option.

Also, just wanted to add that I think its great for a vendor to be this closely interacting with the public and gaining real user input. +1 PERRIN.

[freeman]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

Reasonably safe! That is an understatement! As time passes we will have more agressive maps for the higher octane cars. Maybe a specific 94 octane map?? I could make you one to try out that is more aggressive, but we do not have any graphs to back it up.

My vote goes to this !

Forget about Si drive ! A 94 octane map would be perfect!

I think you will gain a lot more business from Canada with a specific 94 octane map.

[Digitalfiend]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

Yes, most of us know that your foot is the best way to better fuel economy. But we all have others that drive the car, and may not want them to make too much power. Like wives, girlfriends, and for the ladies, husbands.

My suggestion was actually for my wife. She likes power but didn't like the delivery of that power in my stage 2 protuned car. So an I-mode @ 18psi but with a less aggressive throttle mapping would be perfect for her in the snow and putting around town and exactly what I was getting at. 100% throttle is 100% throttle so I-mode would make the same power as S# if you floored it. But a 100% throttle under wastegate boost isn't going to get you going very fast.

Have we given any thought to how the whole system handles power changes on the fly if you are messing with boost settings? Under the stock map it only affects the throttle, right? But under the Perrin map, if you accidently (or willingly) flicked from I-mode (wastegate boost) to S#, could there be any bad or unexpected side-effects?

[PERRINJeff]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

BTW, I really like how the boosts vary between S and S# modes. When I feel like going a little faster but dont want to beat on the car - or if my wife takes and doesnt shift all that great or drive the car optimally (sorry honey ), at least I know shes not at full boost when that stuff is happening. And because it defaults to S mode, I think its a good idea to keep that a little more tame because I imagine driving most of the time in S. I guess in my mind, keeping the boost the same on S and S# sort of defeats the purpose if all you're changing is throttle mapping.

To summarize (and agree with the other fellow on here), I like how "I mode" stays relatively stock, S# is balls out and S is somewhere in the middle.

Jeff, perhaps it makes sense to start a poll in a new thread so everyone can cast their vote - that is, if you can logically summarize all of the differing opinions! BTW, dont forget the "I dont care" option.

Also, just wanted to add that I think its great for a vendor to be this closely interacting with the public and gaining real user input. +1 PERRIN.

Poll, hmm not bad, got to figure out how to do that

Originally Posted by freeman

My vote goes to this !

Forget about Si drive ! A 94 octane map would be perfect!

I think you will gain a lot more business from Canada with a specific 94 octane map.

Our fellow Canadians are important and 94 maps will be happening soon!

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

My suggestion was actually for my wife. She likes power but didn't like the delivery of that power in my stage 2 protuned car. So an I-mode @ 18psi but with a less aggressive throttle mapping would be perfect for her in the snow and putting around town and exactly what I was getting at. 100% throttle is 100% throttle so I-mode would make the same power as S# if you floored it. But a 100% throttle under wastegate boost isn't going to get you going very fast.

Have we given any thought to how the whole system handles power changes on the fly if you are messing with boost settings? Under the stock map it only affects the throttle, right? But under the Perrin map, if you accidently (or willingly) flicked from I-mode (wastegate boost) to S#, could there be any bad or unexpected side-effects?

There shouldn't be anything bad going on. Meaning since the Throttle is mapped to a requested torque number, and the only other thing the ECU uses requested torque for is boost control, the only thing it will do is give you more power.

[Digitalfiend]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

Poll, hmm not bad, got to figure out how to do that

You can start a new thread and create a poll or I can add one to this thread if you tell me what options you want.

[DrPhyzx]

Originally Posted by PERRINJeff

Our mapping for 93 is done with 92 octane. So yes, plug'er in and load it up! I think you will be happy!

Allow me to go briefly

Woohoo!! From my dealer about my SSM BBS/Nav '08...
==================
It has arrived.
Tell me what you want to do in regard to delivery schedule.
I will not be here after 4:00 on Saturday and out of town on Sunday
==================

So... somewhat on-topic questions are the following. First, although I live in the Bay Area, I got a screaming deal from a dealer very close to Jeff's shop (Portland). I will be flying up to get the car and I am seriously considering stopping in to pick up an AP at Perrin and flash away the poor factory tune before driving home. However, I understand that Jeff doesn't have a 91 map yet (which I'm gonna need ). So... Jeff, could you hook me up with an AP with the Cobb maps also? Alternately I could have you do a Stage 1 91 tune, but I'm not sure time/schedule are really going to permit that and also unsure how much sense it makes to spend money on a custom Stage 1.

Second... I know a lot of you guys are from up that way and there are plenty of stories from the NW about paint chipping from traction gravel. How do I get out of the area with minimal exposure to this hazard? To the coast as quickly as possible? Down to Eugene and then to the coast? I'm thinking I'll drive the coast a lot since:

- temps there should mean no gravel used on the roads
- a nicer (albeit longer) drive
- better for the car during break-in (not just freeway droning)

Any tips are appreciated...