[ace996]

Well, I decided to go to 600front/500rear springs on the T2s...from 500/400. I also installed the Whiteline BallJoints, as I cooked the stock balljoints at my last trackday(s) and I figured I'd try the Whiteline's.

The feel:
The car is stiff...very stiff, but not quite yet punishing - although I'm sure my tolerance is above most. I'm still playing with the shock settings to try and find a happy mediumbetween track/street, but I think I'm losing a battle and will just settle on two different settings for street and settings on track.
(BTW...AndrewSS, what are your settings?..I'm having a tough time workingon compression...thanks, man).
Let's just say that the car bites and turns....as fast as I can imagine a turn, it turns. There is no lean, no compliance, no lag...just reaction. I feel as if the car is harwired into my brain and I am one with the machine... I can feel EVERYTHING on the road, too. The lines that mark where people can walk...I feel them. The places where they've patched with tar...I feel them. There is so much communication...hard wired, that's how it feels.
Bumps...oh yeah, I feel them too...but I didn't buy a Lincoln and there's no free ride in the world of track-weapons.

The grip:
I can't really judge this by datalogging, as I haven't had an event (autox or track) since the install, but I am confident that the front end has more grip. The lack of lean means the camber I have at entry will stay, losing less because the suspension isn't compressing as much and also because the WL ballljoints help wit the camber curve. Over bumps, the car feels a little skittish on the turns and I'm sure I can dial that out with the proper shock settings.

I have a two-day HPDE with PDA at Watkins Glen on October 13 and 14th. I will video the sessions and datalog with my PerformanceBox (gps laptimer/gmeter) and compare with previous data.

One note -
I do believe that R-comps will be needed to extract the real benefits of the extra spring-rate. Our stock tires are fantastic enough to really be a blessing and allow us to take advantage of higher spring rates, but I am thinking that the 600/500 combo may be just too much...we'll see, stockers may be fine.

More to come...

Be good,
TomK

* A thousand thanks to Myles at Racecomp Engineering. He's been very helpful with my build and has been a great source of advice. Late night cell-phone calls, weekends, he's been there for me throughout this journey.
I feel like I have a "team" behind me, and with all the experience and advice...I do. Thanks again, for everything.

[stretch]

I'm very curious to see what your data logs show and am glad you're going to be doing that. Do you still have the same tires and alignment?

Those rates are well over what even Ohlins uses on their most hardcore tarmac setup, and your resulting spring frequencies are beyond the normal recommendations. (Actually, RCE's default 500/400 is almost a perfect spring frequency match for what most engineers recommend for racing compound tires.)

Immediacy is nice, but the lack of compliance (your words) is a bad thing. What feels fast due to immediacy might actually be slower due to lack of compliance. You said yourself the car now feels skittish in turns and that's a sign.

[BigSky]

if your autoxing in STU I'm guessing those spring rates aren't too far off from the competition- some guys dabbling w/ 12+k springs- ouch

you might have seen this before, but this a pretty good article on damper adjustment

Shock Tuning - Neil Roberts

[ace996]

Originally Posted by BigSky

if your autoxing in STU I'm guessing those spring rates aren't too far off from the competition- some guys dabbling w/ 12+k springs- ouch

you might have seen this before, but this a pretty good article on damper adjustment

Shock Tuning - Neil Roberts

Yep, plenty of guys running stiff springs.
And thanks for the link, funny that I've printed that before...good info there.
Be good,
TomK

[ace996]

Originally Posted by stretch

I'm very curious to see what your data logs show and am glad you're going to be doing that. Do you still have the same tires and alignment?

Those rates are well over what even Ohlins uses on their most hardcore tarmac setup, and your resulting spring frequencies are beyond the normal recommendations. (Actually, RCE's default 500/400 is almost a perfect spring frequency match for what most engineers recommend for racing compound tires.)

Immediacy is nice, but the lack of compliance (your words) is a bad thing. What feels fast due to immediacy might actually be slower due to lack of compliance. You said yourself the car now feels skittish in turns and that's a sign.

Same tires and alignment...so we'll see what the data says. And that skittish'ness' will be dealt with by some tweaking, nothing I haven't dealt with before. I can certainly appreciate the math/numbers of 'spring frequency' but reality seems to differ from the accepted tables, for a few reasons...and there's a few other posts for that debate so let's keep the pissing match outta this one - and if I was smart enough to do aything "optimal", I wouldn't have bought this car...so let's not go accusing me of being smart and we'll stay friends for a while longer, OK?...

Be good,
TomK

[r12rex]

Wow...Keep us updated ACE. I'm curious as well.


Kind Regards,
Ryan

[mug23]

I have the Racecomp T2 with 500/400 and I'm thinking of going with 700/600 as i feel the car still not as stiff I like it to be.

As I also talked to Racecomp and they mention the T2's max spring is 700/600 before having to be re-valved.

Please let us know how this goes.

[ace996]

Originally Posted by mug23

I have the Racecomp T2 with 500/400 and I'm thinking of going with 700/600 as i feel the car still not as stiff I like it to be.

As I also talked to Racecomp and they mention the T2's max spring is 700/600 before having to be re-valved.

Please let us know how this goes.

Dude,
The 600/500 is a good bit stiffer than 500/400...I wouldn't personally go 700/600...at least not for anything other than a pure autox/track car. If it's not stiff enough, perhaps you need a stiffer front bar? I hear AndrewSS is workin on a monster front fatty... I currenly have the Whiteline 27-29mm set at 29mm and am quite happy with the "anti-roll" now...and I am tough to please.

700/600....damn...hurts just thinking about it...

Be good,
TomK

[Dark_Helmet]

I'd just like to know more about it since that's what I'll be going with next year. I'm also going to be running the biggest whiteline bars on the front and the rear. But my car will be set up for only autox competition.

[ace996]

Originally Posted by Dark_Helmet

But my car will be set up for only autox competition.

And therein lies the difference!!!!

See, my car is set-up for the track, where a tail-happy car is not preferable...at least for me. Sure, I like a little rotation, but not to the point of where the STI needs to be setup for autox. An autox STI is a quite a different cat...with the really serious guys pulling the rear sways and running stiffer springs in the rear...with mondo front camber (almost a medical term) and very little rear camber. A well developed/setup autox STI is downright scary on the roadcourse...bordering on a "drift" setup, and I'm not looking for extreme rotation at over 100mph...call me a wuss, I know...

Be good,
TomK

[stretch]

Originally Posted by ace996

Same tires and alignment...so we'll see what the data says. And that skittish'ness' will be dealt with by some tweaking, nothing I haven't dealt with before. I can certainly appreciate the math/numbers of 'spring frequency' but reality seems to differ from the accepted tables, for a few reasons...and there's a few other posts for that debate so let's keep the pissing match outta this one - and if I was smart enough to do aything "optimal", I wouldn't have bought this car...so let's not go accusing me of being smart and we'll stay friends for a while longer, OK?...

I'm not trying to start anything; I'm just anxious to see your data logs for the reason stated. I know a lot of autocross guys run even stiffer setups, but I've never seen the results backed up with data. That's what has me excited.

You could run a solid suspension like a go-kart (who doesn't like the immediacy of a go-kart!), but do you really think it'll be faster? That line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm sure you'll agree that a lot of guys are able to win in spite of their suspension due to good driving. Heck, anyone who's ever won on a under-modified car also falls into this category. So, it's hard to take anything away from, "I won because of this suspension," which is a common but sometimes misleading opinion. I mean, look at some of the winning guys that run cheap Korean/Taiwanese coilovers for an example of that. Heck, I'm reading an autocross book right now where the author says, "You can never have too much rebound damping." Ugh.

Anyway, I just look forward to seeing the actual data and whether it confirms conventional spring frequency theory. I wouldn't have posted here if not for that; it's your PerformanceBox (which I understand is really good) that makes this so educational.

[BigSky]

I was suprised to see in another thread where i was asking about droop travel that someone posted another "theory" on spring rates- that rates approaching the sprung weight at the corners should be used. For the Impreza we're talking 800/600 ish rates

The "theory" was proposed by Dan Ankeny (of ProParts fame) ProParts USA

Would be interesting to see what some of the dedicated race cars run for spring rates- just for curiousity as I don't forsee my car ever becoming a dedicated race car

[thunderbird]

There are two parts of the equation for spring rate, one that often gets overlooked it seems. Its important to know the motion ratio for the car as well. Corvettes often run springs in the 1000-1200 Lb/in rate, but I think Stretch mentioned that their motion ratios are down in the .4-.5 range. Evos were running in the range of 1000 Lb/in spring fronts 800 Lb/in rears at Nationals and doing very well. Does that mean its good for the STi? Maybe for autocrossing, but maybe not if its driven regularly on the street.

[BigSky]

clearly a street driven Impreza sporting 800# springs is not going to be fun, competitive at certain venues quite possibly

[Dark_Helmet]

Originally Posted by stretch

I'm not trying to start anything; I'm just anxious to see your data logs for the reason stated. I know a lot of autocross guys run even stiffer setups, but I've never seen the results backed up with data. That's what has me excited.

You could run a solid suspension like a go-kart (who doesn't like the immediacy of a go-kart!), but do you really think it'll be faster? That line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm sure you'll agree that a lot of guys are able to win in spite of their suspension due to good driving. Heck, anyone who's ever won on a under-modified car also falls into this category. So, it's hard to take anything away from, "I won because of this suspension," which is a common but sometimes misleading opinion. I mean, look at some of the winning guys that run cheap Korean/Taiwanese coilovers for an example of that. Heck, I'm reading an autocross book right now where the author says, "You can never have too much rebound damping." Ugh.

Anyway, I just look forward to seeing the actual data and whether it confirms conventional spring frequency theory. I wouldn't have posted here if not for that; it's your PerformanceBox (which I understand is really good) that makes this so educational.

And I don't even know where to begin with all that theory stuff. I've read the thread from before about it, I've read it a few times.....I still can't deal with it.