[BenW]

I got my car aligned and it's pretty low. if I'm in a high speed corner and hit a large bump, my tire will touch the inner wheel liner in the front.

If I adjust the ride height higher for track days say, 1" to 1.5", how much will that affect my toe and will it cause toe in or toe out?

my alignment settings are -2 camber on all 4 wheels and 0.0 toe everywhere.

Thanks,
Ben

[evilSTi7]

If you adjust the ride height you need to get another corner balance and alignment.

[Lutfy]

Originally Posted by BenW

I got my car aligned and it's pretty low. if I'm in a high speed corner and hit a large bump, my tire will touch the inner wheel liner in the front.

If I adjust the ride height higher for track days say, 1" to 1.5", how much will that affect my toe and will it cause toe in or toe out?

my alignment settings are -2 camber on all 4 wheels and 0.0 toe everywhere.

Thanks,
Ben

Ben,

Why would you keep the car this low and raise it for the track? Lowering your car beyond a specific range will have adverse effect (control arms should be parallel). Ideally you should set your car up (base line) as 14" gap between front wheel to the fender and 13.5" at the back (rake).

Getting back to your first question, if you raise your car, you will lose some camber. With loss of camber, you will also experience slight toe in.

Frankly, no need to slam and raise car based on track event/ street use. A smart fellow will set it up (corner balance/align) and just leave it there.

Lutfy

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by Lutfy

Getting back to your first question, if you raise your car, you will lose some camber. With loss of camber, you will also experience slight toe in.

Just to clarify, if you raise the car the camber moves more into the negative.

[Lutfy]

Originally Posted by lackskill

Just to clarify, if you raise the car the camber moves more into the negative.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement? So when you jack your car up higher (assuming its an STi with McPh. struts), you start getting more negative camber (tire points towards inside)?

Lutfy

[Splash]

Eh, this again...

Raising/Lowering causing gain/loss of camber is relative to where you start.

If the lower arms are parallel with the ground, THAT is the maximum amount of negative camber you can EVER obtain with the setting you have. ANY raising or lowering from that point will lose negative camber because the lower arm moves in an arc...

So, if you are really low, the arms likely point up towards the wheels. In that case, raising the car will gain negative camber.

If you are at stock height, lowering the car will also gain negative camber.

Setting the height such that the arms are parallel is the optimal setting, assuming max negative camber is the goal.

Changing the height changes the camber and that changes the toe with it..

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by Lutfy

Do you have any evidence to support that statement? So when you jack your car up higher (assuming its an STi with McPh. struts), you start getting more negative camber (tire points towards inside)?

Lutfy

that is my understanding. When you lower it, you lose negative camber.

[fullerton]

Lowering ride height will cause toe-out and negative camber. (actually the negative camber will cause the toe-out, but you get the point)

Vice-versa for raising ride height.

This assumes you start at stock ride height.



You do not want toe-in.

[T3h_Clap]

Originally Posted by fullerton

You do not want toe-in.

depends on the circumstances.

a little toe-in in the front will aid in high speed stability.

and toe out in the rear can be very bad for an inexperienced driver.

a little toe out in the front is nice though

[fullerton]

I think most of us would trade high speed stability for better turn in.

Just grip the wheel harder up top!

[Tortfeasor STi]

Originally Posted by fullerton

I think most of us would trade high speed stability for better turn in.

Just grip the wheel harder up top!

Right up until you go on a road trip or long highway cruise and you spend the entire time fighting a car that does not want to stay in its lane (what with tire ruts playing hob with the toe out setting).

[fullerton]

that's how i stay awake on my drive to my parents in iowa. imagine a 240 mile drive with about 6 turns.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by Splash

Eh, this again...

Raising/Lowering causing gain/loss of camber is relative to where you start.

If the lower arms are parallel with the ground, THAT is the maximum amount of negative camber you can EVER obtain with the setting you have. ANY raising or lowering from that point will lose negative camber because the lower arm moves in an arc...

So, if you are really low, the arms likely point up towards the wheels. In that case, raising the car will gain negative camber.

If you are at stock height, lowering the car will also gain negative camber.

Setting the height such that the arms are parallel is the optimal setting, assuming max negative camber is the goal.

Changing the height changes the camber and that changes the toe with it..

Splash has it right. Along these lines, here's another explanation for the visual people...

Originally Posted by SWortham

The way the camber curves are affected has to do with the orientation of the control arm and the strut.

Here's a simple diagram of a Macpherson strut suspension (thanks to Wikipedia) to help you visualize it...


In the case of the STI, the front control arms (the blue parts) are near horizontal when the car is at rest. This means that at rest, the control arms are holding the lower part of the strut as far outboard as possible (or close to it). This also means that if you were to lower the car then the at-rest angle of the control arms will change, pull the lower part of the strut more inboard, and put the suspension at a worse position of the camber curve.

I hope that helps,
Steve

Camber Curve

[stretch]

Originally Posted by Splash

Eh, this again...

Raising/Lowering causing gain/loss of camber is relative to where you start.

If the lower arms are parallel with the ground, THAT is the maximum amount of negative camber you can EVER obtain with the setting you have. ANY raising or lowering from that point will lose negative camber because the lower arm moves in an arc...

So, if you are really low, the arms likely point up towards the wheels. In that case, raising the car will gain negative camber.

If you are at stock height, lowering the car will also gain negative camber.

Setting the height such that the arms are parallel is the optimal setting, assuming max negative camber is the goal.

Changing the height changes the camber and that changes the toe with it..

You most certainly do gain camber beyond this point. You gain camber until the control arm is perpendicular to the strut (roughly 17 degrees pointed upwards). This is much farther than what you suggest. In fact, camber curves can still be decent with the control arm parallel to the ground if your steering axis inclination is high, which is why maxing out your camber plates (increasing SAI) helps your camber curve.

[05_GD7]

^^^Thanks for that diagram, it explains a lot.

However, here's a question, as I'm no where near an expert in STi suspension.

Lets take the front, for example. You can adjust the camber using either the stock camber bolts, or camber plates. Lets say for moment that your camber bolts are seized, and you can only adjust using camber plates. Therefore, the camber is depended on the angle of the strut relative to the ground...correct? Is there a pivot point somewhere when the suspension is compressed that creates this "camber curve"?

Cuz if the strut is fixed at the strut top, and at the knuckle, how does the camber change with suspension movement? Or is there a pivot point that I don't know about?