Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control

sti robot · 08-08-2007, 04:46 AM

So, I've been batting this idea around for a bit and I figured it needs its own thread. I'm not going to build this anytime soon (heck I don't even have coilovers, yet)...its just an idea that I needed to get down and out. Also, I figure if I put it out there someone else might make it.

With the same hardware I've been using on my kitchen sink meter project one could reasonably create a remote damping controller for any coilover kit (or even ohlins and konis.)

Technically all this boils down to is creating a digital knob turner...so we really aren't accomplishing anything other than a convenience (aka bling).

What you would need:
-Microcontroller-i'd us the arduino setup because that's what i have experience with.
-Display-again i'd use a simple serial display
-buttons-radioshack specials
-stepper motors-easy to find for cheap...getting ones that you can move at the desired angles is difficult.
-a way to adapt the stepper motor shaft to the co's adjustment knob-easy enough with random hardware store parts.

Technical hurdles:
-Different co's adjust damping differently and different stepper motors are controlled differently. Matching the stepper motor control to the damping knob turning without some drift that needs to be reset after x number miles is going to be difficult.
-making the system active (like the TEAS) would be difficult and constantly adjusting the rebound rate on a strut not designed for constant adjustment might not be a good idea.

What would it cost a technically competent person to do this:
-time: a couple of weeks
-money: around $100

wi77iam · 08-09-2007, 03:18 AM

I was going to attempt this when I get my Ohlins struts. I already have the car PC, some stepper motors, and a controller. The connection to the adjustment knob may be difficult. Actually I won't know until I get the struts, but I'm hoping the motor shaft can be connected directly to the strut adjustment shaft with the knob removed.

I never thought about the stress of constant adjustment of the strut, but I don't think drift will be a problem. Stepper motors can hold their set positions fairly well.

Manual adjustment would be controlled via my touchscreen, but I would also attempt an active solution, with inputs from the ecu for vehicle speed and from a phidgets accelerometer, which I already have. Sort of like the auto mode of the dccd. I think it would be neat to have the PC control each wheels dampening as the car goes into a turn. Firm up the front when braking and then set it back to soft for high speed straight (ie highway) driving.

sti robot · 08-10-2007, 03:13 AM

I think the problem with an active suspension is lag. IIRC Prodrive tried something similar and didn't make it to production for some reason. The idea here is that the computer can probably get the signal and do the processing fairly quickly, but the stepper motor won't move that fast. I bet it might not move fast enough to react to changing conditions.

Its an interesting problem though, and would make for a fun project.

Saabaru STI · 08-10-2007, 02:54 PM

I think we should worry more about making something that works for Ohlins fixed perched struts, and hope the adjustments will also work with Ohlins coilovers. So many people have Ohlins that it would definitely sell.

There's more than bling to having this. It's so much more convenient to judget the damping settings while driving vs. stop, adjust, go, etc.

Rootus · 08-10-2007, 05:30 PM

Active control is a neat idea. What I'd like to see is an adaptation of the magnetic ride system the Corvette uses. I wonder what it would take to make something that would work on an STI...

**torquemada** · 08-11-2007, 11:08 AM

excuse me for my lack of knowledge, are you looking for something like this?

http://www.maxtrac.nl/UK/Default.asp

sti robot · 08-11-2007, 02:59 PM

Yeah, that's the same sort of thing as the EDFC and others. Its not active like the non-production prodrive system or the TEAS though.

hard ride · 05-06-2008, 03:55 AM

So has anyone progressed this?

singlefin · 05-06-2008, 09:07 AM

What about using R/C components? i.e. servos that has enough torque and a servo driver that allows you to turn the servo to a specified angle, like this one:
Servo Driver

You might need to use a servo like this one that turns 360 degrees rather than the standard 60 degrees:
HSR-1422CR (57 oz.in.) Continuous Rotation Standard Servo

Attach a large gear to the servo output and a smaller "pinion" gear to the adjuster shaft on the strut so that the servo doesn't have to turn much for adjustment.
You'd just need to figure out how far the servo has to turn in order to make 1 click of adjustment and figure out the gear ratios.

From there then make little markers/indicators on the servo driver's panel like the bezel of a dive watch to show where you are at in terms of firm/softness.

A cheap and ghetto way...

wi77iam · 05-07-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlefin

What about using R/C components? i.e. servos that has enough torque and a servo driver that allows you to turn the servo to a specified angle, like this one:
Servo Driver

You might need to use a servo like this one that turns 360 degrees rather than the standard 60 degrees:
HSR-1422CR (57 oz.in.) Continuous Rotation Standard Servo

Attach a large gear to the servo output and a smaller "pinion" gear to the adjuster shaft on the strut so that the servo doesn't have to turn much for adjustment.
You'd just need to figure out how far the servo has to turn in order to make 1 click of adjustment and figure out the gear ratios.

From there then make little markers/indicators on the servo driver's panel like the bezel of a dive watch to show where you are at in terms of firm/softness.

A cheap and ghetto way...

I don't think that servos would have enough torque to do this, although perhaps the larger ones they have for robots may work. How much effort is it to turn the adjustment knobs by hand? The problem is in controlling their positions and knowing how far they've been rotated. Stepper motors are better suited for this.

wi77iam · 05-07-2008, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard ride

So has anyone progressed this?

I have the carPC, the stepper motors and the controller. I just need to buy the Ohlins, which is going to happen soon. In the meantime, can someone post up a closeup pic of the control knob on the Ohlins, so I can see how best to make the connection.

sti robot · 05-07-2008, 09:43 AM

awesome. I'm glad to hear someone is doing this. If you are interested in making it an open project I can help (webspace, debugging, bouncing around technical ideas, etc.)pm me

**tyler_sti** · 05-07-2008, 09:53 AM

Hobby shops aka model car and airplane shops. They have sooo many servos and different connections and hubs. Im sure you could fins something. Check Hobby People - The Radio Control (RC or R/C) Super Store - RC Cars, RC Trucks, RC Planes, RC Helicopters, RC Boats and More! 1000's of RC Parts & Accessories!

nw-TI · 05-09-2008, 02:15 PM

Take a look at digital coreless servos. I have first hand experience with them and they have loads of torque and are very precise.

hard ride · 05-12-2008, 02:22 AM

Will try to get a pic of mine, I have seen some pictures on this forum. The actuator is about a 10mm knurled knob.
I beleive that an aftermarket generic version is now available. I'm going to order one, but won't be in for about 4 weeks.

08-08-2007, 04:46 AM	#1
sti robot Spec C Club Car: 04 STI Java black w/ Fav Mod: a garage Location: Just outside Manassass VA Posts: 1,361 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control So, I've been batting this idea around for a bit and I figured it needs its own thread. I'm not going to build this anytime soon (heck I don't even have coilovers, yet)...its just an idea that I needed to get down and out. Also, I figure if I put it out there someone else might make it. With the same hardware I've been using on my kitchen sink meter project one could reasonably create a remote damping controller for any coilover kit (or even ohlins and konis.) Technically all this boils down to is creating a digital knob turner...so we really aren't accomplishing anything other than a convenience (aka bling). What you would need: -Microcontroller-i'd us the arduino setup because that's what i have experience with. -Display-again i'd use a simple serial display -buttons-radioshack specials -stepper motors-easy to find for cheap...getting ones that you can move at the desired angles is difficult. -a way to adapt the stepper motor shaft to the co's adjustment knob-easy enough with random hardware store parts. Technical hurdles: -Different co's adjust damping differently and different stepper motors are controlled differently. Matching the stepper motor control to the damping knob turning without some drift that needs to be reset after x number miles is going to be difficult. -making the system active (like the TEAS) would be difficult and constantly adjusting the rebound rate on a strut not designed for constant adjustment might not be a good idea. What would it cost a technically competent person to do this: -time: a couple of weeks -money: around $100 This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

08-09-2007, 03:18 AM	#2
wi77iam Grassroots STI Racer Car: 04 PSM STi Location: Hatfield, PA Posts: 565 Join Date: May 2003 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control I was going to attempt this when I get my Ohlins struts. I already have the car PC, some stepper motors, and a controller. The connection to the adjustment knob may be difficult. Actually I won't know until I get the struts, but I'm hoping the motor shaft can be connected directly to the strut adjustment shaft with the knob removed. I never thought about the stress of constant adjustment of the strut, but I don't think drift will be a problem. Stepper motors can hold their set positions fairly well. Manual adjustment would be controlled via my touchscreen, but I would also attempt an active solution, with inputs from the ecu for vehicle speed and from a phidgets accelerometer, which I already have. Sort of like the auto mode of the dccd. I think it would be neat to have the PC control each wheels dampening as the car goes into a turn. Firm up the front when braking and then set it back to soft for high speed straight (ie highway) driving. Last edited by wi77iam : 08-09-2007 at 03:21 AM.

08-10-2007, 03:13 AM	#3
sti robot Spec C Club Car: 04 STI Java black w/ Fav Mod: a garage Location: Just outside Manassass VA Posts: 1,361 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control I think the problem with an active suspension is lag. IIRC Prodrive tried something similar and didn't make it to production for some reason. The idea here is that the computer can probably get the signal and do the processing fairly quickly, but the stepper motor won't move that fast. I bet it might not move fast enough to react to changing conditions. Its an interesting problem though, and would make for a fun project.

08-10-2007, 02:54 PM	#4
Saabaru STI Grassroots STI Racer Posts: 503 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control I think we should worry more about making something that works for Ohlins fixed perched struts, and hope the adjustments will also work with Ohlins coilovers. So many people have Ohlins that it would definitely sell. There's more than bling to having this. It's so much more convenient to judget the damping settings while driving vs. stop, adjust, go, etc.

08-10-2007, 05:30 PM	#5
Rootus S204 Racer Location: Africa Posts: 2,742 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control Active control is a neat idea. What I'd like to see is an adaptation of the magnetic ride system the Corvette uses. I wonder what it would take to make something that would work on an STI...

08-11-2007, 11:08 AM	#6
torquemada Gold Member Car: WRB EDM 06 WRX STI Fav Mod: Aerys 3" Location: Germany Posts: 873 Join Date: Dec 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control excuse me for my lack of knowledge, are you looking for something like this? http://www.maxtrac.nl/UK/Default.asp

08-11-2007, 02:59 PM	#7
sti robot Spec C Club Car: 04 STI Java black w/ Fav Mod: a garage Location: Just outside Manassass VA Posts: 1,361 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control Yeah, that's the same sort of thing as the EDFC and others. Its not active like the non-production prodrive system or the TEAS though.

05-06-2008, 03:55 AM	#8
hard ride Amateur STI Driver Car: Black Sti 07 Fav Mod: Coming Soon Location: Sydney Posts: 32 Join Date: Dec 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control So has anyone progressed this?

05-06-2008, 09:07 AM	#9
singlefin Amateur STI Driver Posts: 13 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control What about using R/C components? i.e. servos that has enough torque and a servo driver that allows you to turn the servo to a specified angle, like this one: Servo Driver You might need to use a servo like this one that turns 360 degrees rather than the standard 60 degrees: HSR-1422CR (57 oz.in.) Continuous Rotation Standard Servo Attach a large gear to the servo output and a smaller "pinion" gear to the adjuster shaft on the strut so that the servo doesn't have to turn much for adjustment. You'd just need to figure out how far the servo has to turn in order to make 1 click of adjustment and figure out the gear ratios. From there then make little markers/indicators on the servo driver's panel like the bezel of a dive watch to show where you are at in terms of firm/softness. A cheap and ghetto way...

05-07-2008, 09:43 AM	#12
sti robot Spec C Club Car: 04 STI Java black w/ Fav Mod: a garage Location: Just outside Manassass VA Posts: 1,361 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control awesome. I'm glad to hear someone is doing this. If you are interested in making it an open project I can help (webspace, debugging, bouncing around technical ideas, etc.)pm me

05-07-2008, 09:53 AM	#13
tyler_sti Gold Member Car: '07 CMG STI Fav Mod: carbing subframe, driving experience:) Location: los angeles Posts: 3,160 Join Date: Aug 2006 Trader Rating: (11)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control Hobby shops aka model car and airplane shops. They have sooo many servos and different connections and hubs. Im sure you could fins something. Check Hobby People - The Radio Control (RC or R/C) Super Store - RC Cars, RC Trucks, RC Planes, RC Helicopters, RC Boats and More! 1000's of RC Parts & Accessories!

05-09-2008, 02:15 PM	#14
nw-TI Junior STI Driver Car: 05 WR Blue WRX STI Location: Issaquah, WA Posts: 102 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control Take a look at digital coreless servos. I have first hand experience with them and they have loads of torque and are very precise.

05-12-2008, 02:22 AM	#15
hard ride Amateur STI Driver Car: Black Sti 07 Fav Mod: Coming Soon Location: Sydney Posts: 32 Join Date: Dec 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Idea for DIY EDFC/TEAS type remote damping control Will try to get a pic of mine, I have seen some pictures on this forum. The actuator is about a 10mm knurled knob. I beleive that an aftermarket generic version is now available. I'm going to order one, but won't be in for about 4 weeks. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.