Another major problem found with certain lowering springs- coil bind. - Page 2

**evilSTi7** · 07-02-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch

Crap, so this really isn't an isolated issue. A spring company should know better than that, WTF.

Did you call Tein about this issue? To me, that constitutes a defective spring and I'd want a fixed spring or my money back. Seriously.

Swift, JDM Pink, and Prodrive springs all use the same number of coil winds as the stock springs (or less) and should be OK, so long as the coils aren't too thick.

No, i didn't call tein... i didn't call tanabe either, lol. It was the first suspension mod i had done, so i didn't know any better.

lackskill · 07-02-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rootus

... or choose springs that don't exhibit the behavior, like JDM STI pinks.

Maybe. Except I don't particularly like the stock struts, and if Im spending 2k+ I am damn sure getting coilovers.

stretch · 07-02-2007, 09:43 AM

^^^ I actually ran the stock struts 1/4" higher than stock ride height and slightly firmer than stock springs and found them pretty decent. I'd be willing to bet that with the right combination of springs, bump stops, and bump-travel-adding camber plates, you'd have a suspension that behaved very similarly to the older Whiteline coilovers.

lackskill · 07-02-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch

^^^ I actually ran the stock struts 1/4" higher than stock ride height and slightly firmer than stock springs and found them pretty decent. I'd be willing to bet that with the right combination of springs, bump stops, and bump-travel-adding camber plates, you'd have a suspension that behaved very similarly to the older Whiteline coilovers.

For all intents and purposes, I will still be going CO. I have already blown 1 strut, and I think I have another one going.

Mykl · 07-02-2007, 09:58 AM

Those who are experiencing coil bind... have you cut your bump stops? This is what they can be used for, preventing coil bind.

If you have coilovers this is something you want to pay attention to. There's absolutely no excuse for OEM aftermarket replacement springs to do this.

05_GD7 · 07-02-2007, 10:34 AM

well I have RCE Blacks on order, so I will definately verify with pics when I get them!

Rootus · 07-02-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lackskill

Maybe. Except I don't particularly like the stock struts, and if Im spending 2k+ I am damn sure getting coilovers.

I see your point, although I think that it's not just a cost issue. Coilovers come with their own pros and cons, and even for the same price I might still elect to go with nice fixed perch struts.

**RaceComp Engineering** · 07-02-2007, 11:06 AM

In the fall of 2006 when we were designing the "regular guy" springs, we paid close attention to ride height and the needs of just that,.....barely lowering springs for every day driving. From that we felt that we wanted to expand the range of the ORIGINAL purpose of our RCE Yellow Supersport Street/Track lowering springs, as they were designed for TRACK DAY AND AUTOCROSS, but yet could be driven on the street.

Many, many, many, end users have used them( first generation yellows) for this and have had great results as they should, since that is what they were designed for. Yes we have had some feedback that under extreme conditions, considering their high rate, they have "felt" or thought they bottomed out. I can say that many times in the 5 months I tested them on my STI that I never experienced this. That doesnt mean that some guy on a horrible road in Detroit, or NewYork, or a country road didnt have a worse experience. None the less, this motivated us to ensure that in the future our entire line up would be more streetable than previously. Certainly we have regularly advised clients who dont do track days and or who live on or near rough roads that these are not the springs for them.

Our new Yellows, our Regular Guy springs, and our new Wagon STI springs ALL have 1 less coil. Even though our springs tested fine and we have only had one client who actually cut his bump stops AND drove too fast over a super tall riser, tell us that he thinks he had coil bind when he landed.

Again, it was my intention to design a spring that had a much higher rate than anything else on the market, a average amount of lowering, aggressive rear rate and cost less than JDM Pinks. This we did. Moving forward as any companies do, we have taken feedback and made small but effective changes. 1 less coil is one of those changes. This ensures a broader range of use from each product for all end users.

And to clarify, ALL of our springs, YELLOW, REGULAR GUY and WAGON all use our newer design with 1 less coil and the same rates that we have mentioned for each already. These are due in within a WEEK.

Myles Williams
Owner RCE/ GTWORX

MTR · 07-02-2007, 11:15 AM

I was bleeding the brake fluid on my 05 with GF210s last weekend when I noticed some coil bind. I took a picture of it too, and I can upload it if that helps the cause.

05_GD7 · 07-02-2007, 11:17 AM

^^^^^

Can't wait for those blacks!!!!

stretch · 07-02-2007, 11:18 AM

Myles,

Do you have any measurements or just anecdotal evidence that coil binding is rarely a problem? And even if you can prove it rare, how do you find it ever acceptable, even for track or autocross? I can't think of a bigger flaw for a spring to have.

**twiSTies** · 07-02-2007, 11:23 AM

I can verify firsthand that my Swifts did not coil bind. I recently took them off the car after switching to coilovers (more people should-lowering springs on the stock struts are a complete waste of time), and the coils showed no signs of touching from a years worth of crap PA roads.

**SWortham** · 07-02-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch

And even if it's rare, how do you find it ever acceptable, even for track or autocross? I can't think of a bigger flaw for a spring to have.

I don't think it does happen on the track or in autocrossing. I'm sure it would if you're rallycrossing though. It's obvious and it's even audible when it happens but it takes a BIG bump before you experience it.

Nevertheless, I'm glad RCE recognized the problem and has changed their design already.

**RaceComp Engineering** · 07-02-2007, 11:31 AM

RARE was getting air and landing. Moving forward to ensure that even the worse situations wont have an issue, we made revisions. I never had this happen while testing on the track and when our autocross champ tested them.

Myles

**RaceComp Engineering** · 07-02-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWortham

I don't think it does happen on the track or in autocrossing. I'm sure it would if you're rallycrossing though. It's obvious and it's even audible when it happens but it takes a BIG bump before you experience it.

Nevertheless, I'm glad RCE recognized the problem and has changed their design already.

Thanks Steve. I had these and many other proto's on my car and on our then 06 Sti testing them on the worse back roads, DC city streets, and both the 04 and 06 sTI was pitched and abused by Jeff on many autocross courses.

Mw

07-02-2007, 09:43 AM	#18
stretch Silver Member Car: Aspen 2005 STi Fav Mod: TurnInConcepts.com Coilovers Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 1,809 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. ^^^ I actually ran the stock struts 1/4" higher than stock ride height and slightly firmer than stock springs and found them pretty decent. I'd be willing to bet that with the right combination of springs, bump stops, and bump-travel-adding camber plates, you'd have a suspension that behaved very similarly to the older Whiteline coilovers.

07-02-2007, 09:58 AM	#20
Mykl S204 Racer Car: '04.5 STi Fav Mod: ZZYZX Location: Montgomery, Al Posts: 2,751 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. Those who are experiencing coil bind... have you cut your bump stops? This is what they can be used for, preventing coil bind. If you have coilovers this is something you want to pay attention to. There's absolutely no excuse for OEM aftermarket replacement springs to do this.

07-02-2007, 10:34 AM	#21
05_GD7 Spec C Club Car: 05 STi - Black Fav Mod: No Lien Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,870 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. well I have RCE Blacks on order, so I will definately verify with pics when I get them!

07-02-2007, 11:06 AM	#23
RaceComp Engineering Authorized Vendor Car: 2008 Pinarello FP5 Fav Mod: New Underwear after a 147mph slide into turn 17 at Sebring in the rain....still got 3rd.. Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 3,141 Join Date: Apr 2005 Trader Rating: (10)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. In the fall of 2006 when we were designing the "regular guy" springs, we paid close attention to ride height and the needs of just that,.....barely lowering springs for every day driving. From that we felt that we wanted to expand the range of the ORIGINAL purpose of our RCE Yellow Supersport Street/Track lowering springs, as they were designed for TRACK DAY AND AUTOCROSS, but yet could be driven on the street. Many, many, many, end users have used them( first generation yellows) for this and have had great results as they should, since that is what they were designed for. Yes we have had some feedback that under extreme conditions, considering their high rate, they have "felt" or thought they bottomed out. I can say that many times in the 5 months I tested them on my STI that I never experienced this. That doesnt mean that some guy on a horrible road in Detroit, or NewYork, or a country road didnt have a worse experience. None the less, this motivated us to ensure that in the future our entire line up would be more streetable than previously. Certainly we have regularly advised clients who dont do track days and or who live on or near rough roads that these are not the springs for them. Our new Yellows, our Regular Guy springs, and our new Wagon STI springs ALL have 1 less coil. Even though our springs tested fine and we have only had one client who actually cut his bump stops AND drove too fast over a super tall riser, tell us that he thinks he had coil bind when he landed. Again, it was my intention to design a spring that had a much higher rate than anything else on the market, a average amount of lowering, aggressive rear rate and cost less than JDM Pinks. This we did. Moving forward as any companies do, we have taken feedback and made small but effective changes. 1 less coil is one of those changes. This ensures a broader range of use from each product for all end users. And to clarify, ALL of our springs, YELLOW, REGULAR GUY and WAGON all use our newer design with 1 less coil and the same rates that we have mentioned for each already. These are due in within a WEEK. Myles Williams Owner RCE/ GTWORX

07-02-2007, 11:15 AM	#24
MTR Junior STI Driver Car: 05 STi Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 92 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. I was bleeding the brake fluid on my 05 with GF210s last weekend when I noticed some coil bind. I took a picture of it too, and I can upload it if that helps the cause. Last edited by MTR : 07-02-2007 at 11:23 AM.

07-02-2007, 11:17 AM	#25
05_GD7 Spec C Club Car: 05 STi - Black Fav Mod: No Lien Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,870 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. ^^^^^ Can't wait for those blacks!!!!

07-02-2007, 11:18 AM	#26
stretch Silver Member Car: Aspen 2005 STi Fav Mod: TurnInConcepts.com Coilovers Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 1,809 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. Myles, Do you have any measurements or just anecdotal evidence that coil binding is rarely a problem? And even if you can prove it rare, how do you find it ever acceptable, even for track or autocross? I can't think of a bigger flaw for a spring to have.

07-02-2007, 11:23 AM	#27
twiSTies Gold Member Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: T2s and Recaros Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 3,209 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. I can verify firsthand that my Swifts did not coil bind. I recently took them off the car after switching to coilovers (more people should-lowering springs on the stock struts are a complete waste of time), and the coils showed no signs of touching from a years worth of crap PA roads.

07-02-2007, 11:31 AM	#29
RaceComp Engineering Authorized Vendor Car: 2008 Pinarello FP5 Fav Mod: New Underwear after a 147mph slide into turn 17 at Sebring in the rain....still got 3rd.. Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 3,141 Join Date: Apr 2005 Trader Rating: (10)	Re: Another major problem found with lowering springs- coil bind. RARE was getting air and landing. Moving forward to ensure that even the worse situations wont have an issue, we made revisions. I never had this happen while testing on the track and when our autocross champ tested them. Myles