[stretch]

LOL @ the "re-engineered by stretch" sticker. I'm still hoping to see a vendor really take some of my ideas and run with them.

For what it's worth, my own Ground Control setup is capable of reaching coil bind in the rear. I'm running 8" long, 250# springs on Koni's in WRX housings. I did not trim my stock lower spring perch away and have the adjuster as low as it will go before it hits the stock spring perch.

I went out and measured my rear spring length and strut travel today even though I saw no evidence of coil bind on the springs themselves. My springs reach their solid length at 3 inches. There's lots of travel back there so I don't think I'm experiencing coil bind often, but my bump stops are very short and do not engage early enough to prevent the spring from reaching its solid length. The problem is the location of the upper spring perch: it fits over the "dust boot holder" on the stock tophats, which makes it way lower than the end of the strut travel. This might not be a problem if the lower spring perch was also lower, but lower spring perch does not go low enough unless you trim away the stock lower spring perch (which gets in the way of adjustment). I'm not quite ready to do that yet, since I'd be unable to run the stock springs with my Koni's if I did that. Besides, if I did, I'd need to buy inch longer springs to stay at my desired ride height anyway (also not willing to do).

I think Ground Control needs to be added to the coil bind list, even though it's very setup dependent. In the rear, it's challenging- though possible- to have a setup that won't experience coil bind, I think, under a hard enough impact. For most springs, you'd need that lower spring perch to be exactly at the bottom of the adjustable sleeve or run a very long, stiff bump stop. Luckily, the rear has gobs of travel before this happens unlike the front.

Just in case, I uninstalled my firmer Group-N strut tops so that in the event of coil bind, the stock rubber ones will have some give to them.

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by stretch

Anyway, I'm adding Ground Control to the list, even though it's very setup dependent.

I'd be interested to see how the full GC setup (that is, with their housings) performs in this regard. To me, a GC setup in the rear that is just sleeves and springs is really just another stock setup with different diameter springs. To really be called GC I think it needs their housings.

[stretch]

Originally Posted by Rootus

I'd be interested to see how the full GC setup (that is, with their housings) performs in this regard. To me, a GC setup in the rear that is just sleeves and springs is really just another stock setup with different diameter springs. To really be called GC I think it needs their housings.

Oh, sorry- that's only for GC when used in Koni/WRX housing struts (and very likely stock STI struts, though I can't confirm), and even then only in the rear. I'm certain their full coilover setup (in Ground Control housings) would not have this issue. It uses a different tophat plus has way more adjustment in the lower perch. It's absolutely, for sure, not an issue unless you run drastically incorrect springs.

[snorky]

I just want to let everyone know from personal experience that RCE is being great about replacing the V1 fronts with the V2s. They were really cool about it when i called them and asked about the replacements.

I still have the same feelings about the company as i did before this snafu. I call it a snafu because they weren't able to replicate coil bind in their testing so in my eyes they are not at fault. They are extremely knowledgeable, helpful guys and this has shown me that they have great business ethics also. They are very active in this site and are very generous with their knowledge and time. Thanks guys.

I figure the least i could do is write this rant especially because of the posts about members saying they'll never buy from RCE/GTWORX ever again. Those members will surely be missing out but i have no doubt that they'll be back if they're smart.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Thanks snorky....that kind of thing means a lot to us.


And now....pics of Dan's car with the updated RCE V2 Yellows:










- andrew

[twiSTies]

does that ride height work out to 14" front/ 13.5" rear?

[GTWORX.com]

Originally Posted by twiSTies

does that ride height work out to 14" front/ 13.5" rear?

Yep, just went out and measured and it's exactly 14/13.5.

Here's a pic of the front coil with the car on the ground at normal ride height. Don't mind the marks on the coils, they are from spring compressors, NOT coil bind

[twiSTies]

Originally Posted by GTWORX.com

Yep, just went out and measured and it's exactly 14/13.5.

damn i got good eyes, haha. looks just like how i have my coilovers set, very nice "drop yo".

[thrlskr]

Originally Posted by CGMDan

NO! These changes were put into effect long before this thread was even started. I personally knew of these changes about 2 months ago. So giving that type of credit to strech is completely misplaced.

Sorry. My comment was meant more as a stretch than a RCE. Perhaps, a "replaced thanks to stretch's thread" sticker would've been more accurate but I'd guess you would like that one less yet. I guess I'll have to put my career change into marketing on hold.

[stretch]

Originally Posted by snorky

I still have the same feelings about the company as i did before this snafu. I call it a snafu because they weren't able to replicate coil bind in their testing so in my eyes they are not at fault.

I disagree with this statement.

Edit: I thought I had a totally mature response written here, but clearly I'm starting a battle I have no intention of fighting. So, forget it.

[RaceComp Engineering]

- Andrew

[williaty]

Originally Posted by stretch

Kind of like that "snafu" when Big Tobacco didn't know cigarettes caused lung cancer? Or when Ford didn't know that their trucks had an electrical problem that caused the car to spontaneously catch fire? How about when Honda's 5-speed automatic would try to spontaneously shift into first gear at highway speeds. Those companies aren't at fault either?

Or the issue with the initial version of the Crucial springs where they had too little free length and could become unseated if the rear end went to full droop? Both coil bind and insufficient free length are just gross oversights in basic arithmatic on the part of the designer.

Originally Posted by stretch

I sincerely do believe that bad enough coil bind could cause the strut tower to puncture, which I've seen happen on totally stock older cars. Of course, I don't have any data to support this and we haven't heard about it happening yet. Obviously if coil bind is just barely happening (due to the stiff bump stop cushioning the blow), then damage from it is very unlikely to happen. What happens as the bump stops age and soften, or perhaps split apart? A manufacturer isn't exempt from liability just because they didn't test for it!

While as far as I know, no one has fubared a tower yet, an STi owner here in our local owner's club has had the rubber rings that the springs rest on split in two by the yellows repeatedly binding and slamming into them.

This guy is why there was such a ready response by RCE to this thread. He's been yelling at RCE for about 3 months about this problem. Several of the memebers of the local owner's club were having odd handling characteristics after the switch to yellows. This guy took apart a corner of his suspension, made some measurements, did some basic math, and got on the phone. He was told for a long time that there wasn't anything wrong with the spring design and that no one else was complaining about it. Then he gave RCE photos and user reports from some of the guys in our region who were having something funky going on. A little while after that, poof, this thread shows up, RCE cops to the problem and announces a correction to the design within days.

[zell_06]

Would this all prove that, for the long run, a coil over set-up would be a much safer route than just springs? I know the performance gains are higher, as well as the ride harshness. But wouldn't it just make more sense to run coilovers with adjustable damper?

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

- Andrew

A difficult situation is an opportunity to shine, but it is also an opportunity to do exactly the opposite. People notice, and there is no guarantee that the leghumping will continue indefinitely.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Profound and I agree.

EDIT: and we're done that.


- Andrew