[battlecat]

I've never considered spending $1800 plus on suspension upgrades till now. Last year i thought it was nuts. This year i would like to take my autox experience to the next level.
After reading all the positives about KW and RCE I have narrowed my choice of coilovers to those two.

My car is an 06 sti with 22 adj perrin RSB, soon to be ordered whiteline 27 FSB. Also have 2 sets of ingalls +-2.0 camber bolts to use for the front.
Driven on the street and getting hardcore now about autox and track days. Hence the near future purchase of $2000 worth of coilovers.



1) What are the key, end user differences between the KW varient 3's and RCE Tarmac 2? What do you guys like about each one.

2) What options does everyone recommend to purchase with the coilovers? do i need camber plates or camber bolts etc? Big swaybars? What does everyone like to complement their KW3 or Tarmac2.

3) What's the external reservoirs for? Do they change wheel/tire clearances? only on the tarmac 2?
Any worries about the composite perches? We have very tough,ruff streets here in canada.


So far i LOVE, and appreciate the product support that RCE seems to offer. That is real dedication. The only difference is that the KW would be a bit cheaper for me. For the first time, prob in my life, i would be willing to pay the extra because of the support and R+D time. I am worried about my lack of suspension setup knowledge and experience and maybe these coilover choices are out of my league.

[stretch]

Has anybody other than RCE actually owned both?

The reservoir helps resist overheating, which twin-tube designs can (but rarely) do (unless you're going off-road).

Good luck getting any real answers from RCE- they say their T2's are valved to handle a wider range of spring rates. Does that mean the total adjustability range on them is greater than standard KW V3's? Does it mean the entire bump damping curve gets adjusted instead of just low speed damping, like on the standard KW V3's? Or did RCE just make the softest setting on the KW softer? Dunno. They're pretty secretive over it, so you're going to have to go on faith that RCE knows their stuff.

RCE's got a lot of track time on their setup, though, so it's a pretty safe gamble that the minor valving changes RCE made were the result of lots of testing. For this reason, the linear RCE rear springs, and the external reservoir (unnecessary or not), I think RCE's product represents a better product and better value.

Are you really saving much money by going with KW? They seem to be the about the same price.

[lackskill]

I would recommend the RCE's because they are definitely behind their customers. They seem to be dedicated to help whether youre installing them in your driveway or adjusting them at the track. Besides AFAIK the T2's are basically an improved V3.

With coilovers, depending on your spring rate and road surfaces, you will probably want smaller sways than you would with your stock suspension.

[dsm02c]

Tarmac 2's are the way to go simply because of the linear springs. Not that you cannot get V3's with linear springs with a ton of R&D in them elsewhere (RobiSpec who subsequently is an amazing setup guy and there are many benefits to purchasing his V3's over the T2's when it comes to setup just check out his website) If you are just going to bolt them in a go I would get the T2's if you want a full custom setup I would go with RobiSpec V3's they are on my car and I have a great track car. If you just want to be happy knowing you got a great product and have room for adjustment get the T2's. RCE has been good to me always... but for a great coilover you cant go wrong with KW.

[SWortham]

I haven't tried either but the two coilovers on the market I'd be most interested in would be RCE's coilovers for the reasons mentioned above, and the Bilstein PSS9's. But... I went the Ohlins strut route for better ride quality.

Oh, and again I cannot speak for RCE's coilovers. But for what it's worth, I used to have KW V3's on a different car and one thing that impressed me was the build quality of them. They have a full stainless steel construction so you never have to worry about rust or corrosion. And all the brackets were tig welded, and the sway bar brackets themselves were extremely thick and looked like they could withstand an enormous amount of force before breaking. Unfortunately my car was practically a test mule for these particular coilovers which had fitment issues and obvious valving issues in the rear dampers. I'm sure the fitment, ride, and handling of RCE's coilovers would be a very different experience.

[GTWORX.com]

Originally Posted by battlecat

I've never considered spending $1800 plus on suspension upgrades till now. Last year i thought it was nuts. This year i would like to take my autox experience to the next level.
After reading all the positives about KW and RCE I have narrowed my choice of coilovers to those two.

My car is an 06 sti with 22 adj perrin RSB, soon to be ordered whiteline 27 FSB. Also have 2 sets of ingalls +-2.0 camber bolts to use for the front.
Driven on the street and getting hardcore now about autox and track days. Hence the near future purchase of $2000 worth of coilovers.



1) What are the key, end user differences between the KW varient 3's and RCE Tarmac 2? What do you guys like about each one.

2) What options does everyone recommend to purchase with the coilovers? do i need camber plates or camber bolts etc? Big swaybars? What does everyone like to complement their KW3 or Tarmac2.

3) What's the external reservoirs for? Do they change wheel/tire clearances? only on the tarmac 2?
Any worries about the composite perches? We have very tough,ruff streets here in canada.


So far i LOVE, and appreciate the product support that RCE seems to offer. That is real dedication. The only difference is that the KW would be a bit cheaper for me. For the first time, prob in my life, i would be willing to pay the extra because of the support and R+D time. I am worried about my lack of suspension setup knowledge and experience and maybe these coilover choices are out of my league.

Valving, linear rear springs, can accept a wider range of spring rates and being able to choose other spring rates, are the main differences.

As for price,..we list price on both are the same, but we still have a intro price due to popularity. We are also introducing Legacy as well and some "others". We have already started on the new 2008 Impreza( dont ask how).

Our history for coilovers perhaps speaks for itself, (except for that one small blemish) cough, "Z"......We helped develope the first 2 ways for Moton and have established the Ohlins market in the USA for Subaru applications. With that comes endless hours of set up and comparisons and real world feedback ..on and off the track.

I spent 2 years researching who we wanted to " get in bed with" and Kw was who we eyed up accross the room..per say. 9 months later(per say) we have a great baby.

As for other vendors and their track record with KW and so on..I wont really comment. I will say that we have ALOT of Subaru owners with our set ups on their cars, and most of our clients are fast with prior racing experience.

We worked with KW Germany directly and asked for ALOT of things to be different and the success and feedback show this. Yes we have many customers who have come from the V3 to our set up with almost the same rates and they are blown away at the track worthy-ness , yet nothing is given up on a daily basis.

Myles

[battlecat]

Thanks for the excellent replies everyone.

Should i also purchase group N mounts at the same time? Would i still need camber plates?
Or do the KW or RCE coilovers come with camber plates?

What spring rates would be recommended for heavy (competitive) autox, some HPDE track days, 3 day a week DD. T2 vs KW3

Also what is the benefit of linear springs? I have progessive esplir GT springs right now. How would linear compare?

[stretch]

Originally Posted by battlecat

Also what is the benefit of linear springs? I have progessive esplir GT springs right now. How would linear compare?

I don't like progressive springs, why do you?

[RaceComp Engineering]

Originally Posted by battlecat

Thanks for the excellent replies everyone.

Should i also purchase group N mounts at the same time? Would i still need camber plates?
Or do the KW or RCE coilovers come with camber plates?

What spring rates would be recommended for heavy (competitive) autox, some HPDE track days, 3 day a week DD. T2 vs KW3

Also what is the benefit of linear springs? I have progessive esplir GT springs right now. How would linear compare?

I would recommend the 500/400 rates with camber plates and our rear motorsports Group N top. Ride quality is still very favorable, and those rates are enough to get you competitive and the track performance is nothing short of amazing. Soak up mid corner bumps without unsettling the car, and the car still stays flat.

Neither the V3's or the RCE's come with tops (surprising how many of our customers already had camber plates) but we offer a package deal if you are interested.

Also, Myles forgot to mention our RCE Coilovers use the upgraded KW "RACE" springs, which are a little lighter and use fewer coils then the standard KW spring. Also, we have an extra locking perch on each coilover as an extra precautionary measure.

Stretch's link goes into a lot of detail (who would of thought ) on progressive vs. linear. The V3's even at their stiffest progression are still pretty soft.


- Andrew

[dsm02c]

Good Thread...

[battlecat]

Oh boy..not a good thread hahah..it's murdering my wallet the deeper we go.
I started this week wanting to buy a whiteline 27 FSB. Then talked myself into $1900 coilovers. But now i must budget for mounts/plates etc.

So here is what i'm thinking.
Tarmac2 coilovers (500/400)
Group N rear mounts
front camber plates (not sure which ones but would like RCE)
whiteline 27mm FSB

Am i missing anything?
I think i'm gonna wuss out and say those springs are a little too stiff for me right now. What's the next step down?
RCE can you send me a PM with a group price with the above parts when convenient. Or recommend something.

[cdn06wrx]

You're not allowed to get more parts, your car is already fast.

[battlecat]

hahah..you, keep it quiet. I don't want anyone local to know

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by battlecat

So here is what i'm thinking.
Tarmac2 coilovers (500/400)
Group N rear mounts
front camber plates (not sure which ones but would like RCE)
whiteline 27mm FSB

This all depends on you, but you may consider their softer spring rates if this car is primarily a daily driver.

Even with their softest spring rates (350/300 if I remember right) and those big sway bars, that'll be quite a lot of roll resistance.

[Slowwrx]

Originally Posted by stretch

Has anybody other than RCE actually owned both?

Yes I've had both on our One Lap of America Car.

The KWs are great coilovers, they ride better than stock and they handle really well, the damping range seems ok for their springs, I'm not sure if they would handle much more than the stock springs that come with the coil overs. They are a lot faster on track than stock shocks with springs. Well over 2 seconds faster at Roebling Road in GA.

Now the T2s....

Freaking awesome. I got the stiffest spring rate they offer and ride quality is still acceptable, they don't ride quite as nice as the V3s but what you give up in comfort you gain 10 times over in performance. The double locking collars are a plus and I belive Myles has eliminated the plastic upper spring perches. The damping range is huge on these things. Ill be able to tell you how much faster they are at the same track after this weekend.

If you are going to drive them on the street get the T2s with the softer spring rate, you will be very happy.

Matt