[ex-rex]

I am struggling with what direction I want to take in the suspension department. My car will probably never see any real track time. If it does get to a point where I want to track it, it would be road course, not auto-x or drag. I have already decided on Cobb F&R sways & endlinks, STi performance dampers (front lower and rear upper), comfort ALK, and chassis stiffening. I am not too concerned about price, but obviously no outrageous suggestions please (stay under $3K).

With that being said, what is the best setup for street/country roads/canyon runs?

Here are some of the setup choices I have read about:<O

• Ohlins fixed perch struts with lowering springs and Group N top hats
• Ohlins fixed perch struts with lowering springs and RCE camber plates
• Ohlins Sportline coilovers (includes camber plates)
• RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers on RCE camber plates

<OHere’s what I know about the individual components:

• The Ohlins struts are an incredible improvement of stock struts and offer 1-way (rebound) adjustment
• Group N top hats greatly improve suspension response and produce very minimal NVH
• RCE camber plates lower front ride height 3/8” and offer 3 degrees of camber adjustment
• Ohlins Sportline’s offer front camber plates and rear pillowball top mounts.
• RCE rear top hats have pillowball bushings
• RCE Tarmac 2’s are essentially modified KW’s and they do not come with camber plates
• All plate type top hats will sooner or later make noise<O

(Here comes the laundry list of questions)
<O
Are the RCE camber plates really necessary for my needs? I don’t know what the alignment specs should be for street performance. I don’t need to run anything sick in the camber department since I don’t plan on auto-x, but will an aggressive street alignment require the camber plates, or will Whiteline bolts be good enough? I like the idea of them lowering the front stance by 3/8”, but in the event of coilovers, I can fix the ride height on my own. I plan on aiming for the standard 13.8” front and 13.5” rear wheel-to-fender gaps with coilovers.
<O
After spending $2K on the Ohlins perches and between $360 - $700 on plates or top hats, why shouldn’t I opt for spending a tad more and getting the Ohlins Sportlines? Why would one choice be better than the other? I believe I read somewhere that the adjustments are made on the bottoms of the struts. Is this true for both the perches and the coilovers? Has anyone had any problem with road crap (salt, dirt, mud, etc) messing the adjustment knob/area?
<O
The Tarmac 2’s look good, but I have not found much information about these. Where is the adjustment knob on these? What are the spring rates on these?
<O
Are any of these options resistant to winter weather conditions like salt and sand (any protective coating, etc)?
<O
What is the stiffest spring rate I can run while retaining comfortable around town driving? The Ohlins Sportlines are 7kg/5kg. I have heard them talked about as only a little more stiff than stock. I know a set of Zeal Function X are 10kg/8kg, and they have been talked about as being too still for driving around town. Keep in mind I am not comparing the valving here. I know that all of these options have far superior valving.

Thanks for the help. I have been reading all over the place and racking my brain over this.

[Sizzle]

subscribed...I have some of the same questions especially in decideing between the Ohlins fixxed struts vs the coilovers.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by Sizzle

subscribed...I have some of the same questions especially in decideing between the Ohlins fixxed struts vs the coilovers.

it is so close in terms of money that money is almost not a consideration. if i am going to spend $2500 either way, i would rather have the better street setup.

[RaceComp Engineering]

First things first, if you are not going to be tracking the car, there is no reason for coilovers. The Ohlins struts will give you the add performance but more importantly the add comfort that is needed for a street car.

To take full advantage of the Ohlins struts, your going to need an aggressive spring. The RCE springs fit the bill for the ultimate street suspension. Stiff rates, moderate lowering, and designed to work exceptionally well with the Ohlins struts.

As far as top hats, since you are staying with the spring/strut setup, you will need rear group-n's. For the front, I would go with the RCE non-lowering camber plates. They will give you quick, reliable camber adjustments of up to -3 degrees. Combine them with the Ohlins struts and increase in NVH is almost non-existent.

I would also recommend going with the Whiteline 27mm and 24mm adjustable sway bars and I wouldn't spend money yet on those STi dampers.

Throw Kartboy endlinks on the front and rear and that Whiteline ALK and you have a killer street setup, that if need be can whoop some butt on the track too.

Summary:
Ohlins Fixed Perch Struts
RCE Springs
RCE Non-Lowering Camber Plates
Group-N Rear Strut Top Mounts
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway
Kartboy Front and Rear Endlinks
Whiteline ALK

To finish it off add some Cusco Front and Rear Strut Braces and Type-II Lower Brace, along with some steering rack bushings. We have sold this very package, called the DDV, to a lot of our customers and they have all loved it.

To quote my favorite Ronco infomerical....SET IT AND FORGET IT!!!


-Mike

[Dos531]

I am pretty happy with my setup as a street/light track car. I will eventually add ohlin fixed perch struts then it will be complete.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

[*]The Ohlins struts are an incredible improvement of stock struts and offer 1-way (rebound) adjustment

The Ohlins are just 1-way adjustable, but they actually adjust rebound & compression damping together. I believe rebound is adjusted more than compression, but still I thought I'd point that out.

Originally Posted by ex-rex

After spending $2K on the Ohlins perches and between $360 - $700 on plates or top hats, why shouldn’t I opt for spending a tad more and getting the Ohlins Sportlines? Why would one choice be better than the other?

Ohlins Sportlines will have less suspension travel and they'll work with higher spring rates. They also have a smaller spring diameter and more compact design which can allow wider tires and potentially more camber adjustability. But of course there's a catch. The Sportlines will not be as comfortable on the street. You'd be better off with the Ohlins struts if a streetable setup is your primary concern.

To expand on that, I think the ultimate street setup would involve Ohlins struts and Prodrive springs. The RCE springs are great but the spring rate is a little high and over some roads you can feel that. The Prodrive's have a much more mild spring rate, and they produce a very mild (yet even) drop. I've been running RCE springs for a couple months now and have been considering swapping them out for Prodrive's just because my car is a daily driver first and foremost, and I drive on punishing streets daily.

Originally Posted by ex-rex

I believe I read somewhere that the adjustments are made on the bottoms of the struts. Is this true for both the perches and the coilovers? Has anyone had any problem with road crap (salt, dirt, mud, etc) messing the adjustment knob/area?

I don't know about the coilovers, but it's true of the struts. I haven't had mine for too long but from the look of them I don't anticipate any problems.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

First things first, if you are not going to be tracking the car, there is no reason for coilovers. The Ohlins struts will give you the add performance but more importantly the add comfort that is needed for a street car.

To take full advantage of the Ohlins struts, your going to need an aggressive spring. The RCE springs fit the bill for the ultimate street suspension. Stiff rates, moderate lowering, and designed to work exceptionally well with the Ohlins struts.

Summary:
Ohlins Fixed Perch Struts
RCE Springs
RCE Non-Lowering Camber Plates
Group-N Rear Strut Top Mounts
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway
Kartboy Front and Rear Endlinks
Whiteline ALK

To finish it off add some Cusco Front and Rear Strut Braces and Type-II Lower Brace, along with some steering rack bushings.
-Mike

thanks for the great info. about "why get coilovers?" thing. I love a lowered car in the spring, summer, and fall, but for winter, i would want to raise the car back up an inch for possible snow clearance. i know that may sound a little silly, but above all this is still the daily driver and if the need called for it to get to work, i would really appreciate the ability to do so without swapping out the whole suspension. then there is the increased tuning options. the tarmacs are 2-way adjustable, giving me more freedom to find the setting that truely fits me and the roads i drive on. once again, for all that money spent, either way, i want to get the most out of the parts. the flexability of coilovers does play a factor in the decision.

a little off topic, but why do people run 27mm front sways? i would think that that would increase understeer? i have had a rear sway in the past, but never got a front one, so i don't know how it feels.

i have the gt-spec subframe picked out for lower chasis, along with the sti dampers (the rear one going at the top strut tower takes care of the rear cusco bar) and a cusco front stb.

Originally Posted by SWortham

To expand on that, I think the ultimate street setup would involve Ohlins struts and Prodrive springs. The RCE springs are great but the spring rate is a little high and over some roads you can feel that. The Prodrive's have a much more mild spring rate, and they produce a very mild (yet even) drop. I've been running RCE springs for a couple months now and have been considering swapping them out for Prodrive's just because my car is a daily driver first and foremost, and I drive on punishing streets daily.


I don't know about the coilovers, but it's true of the struts. I haven't had mine for too long but from the look of them I don't anticipate any problems.

i am pretty much set on crucial racing springs. unless i hear somthing extremely to the contrary. i had them on my wrx and i absolutely loved them. i will most likely remain loyal.

that is good hear about the corrosion factor

[lovesmysuby]

Stick with Prodrive or RCE springs. In my opinion the Prodrives are great for daily driving, I've had them before, but I've also read the RCE springs are good too.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by lovesmysuby

Stick with Prodrive or RCE springs. In my opinion the Prodrives are great for daily driving, I've had them before, but I've also read the RCE springs are good too.

i am def not saying aything bad about the rce or prodrive springs. when it comes to springs, it seems like it is always a toss up about how it feels driving around town and at higher speeds. how people feel about springs tends to be fairly subjective. i LOVE my old crucial springs on the stock strut setup. handling was greatly improved and ride quality was incredible. i never bottomed out and the springs were very comfortable and predictable around corners. not to mention that the roads i have around my way can be absolutely brutal in some places. the crucial passed all my tests with fyling colors. both of the options mentioned above are more expensive than the crucial springs. i won't rule out the other springs, but i am going to have to do more research on them first. i don't want to pay more when i was extremely happy with my last set.

what are the spring rates on the rce's and prodrive sti springs?

are they progressive or linear?

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

what are the spring rates on the rce's and prodrive sti springs?

are they progressive or linear?

They are each progessive but from the look of them I'd say the RCE's are more progressive. The Prodrive's have 215/195 rates. And the RCE's are quoted to be 25% stiffer than JDM Pinks, which should equate to about 320/270 or something around there. Of course those rates don't tell the whole story when you're talking about progressive springs but it gives you an idea of the difference.

And just for reference, here's the drop of Prodrive's...


And here's the drop of RCE's...


By the way, here's a good list of springs for the STI and their rates:
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32

[RaceComp Engineering]

Originally Posted by SWortham

They are each progessive but from the look of them I'd say the RCE's are more progressive. The Prodrive's have 215/195 rates. And the RCE's are quoted to be 25% stiffer than JDM Pinks, which should equate to about 320/270 or something around there. Of course those rates don't tell the whole story when you're talking about progressive springs but it gives you an idea of the difference.

The Prodrive's are MUCH stiffer then 215/195, thats the rate for the older GC8 springs I believe.

Prodrive never released their rates for the STi.

You're 100% right about progressive/linear not telling the whole story, it's a bit more complicated then that. RCE's are slightly progressive. Part of the spring behaves sort of like a helper spring, so it makes it look a certain way.

- Andrew

[RaceComp Engineering]

double post? wow.....

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

thanks for the great info. about "why get coilovers?" thing. I love a lowered car in the spring, summer, and fall, but for winter, i would want to raise the car back up an inch for possible snow clearance. i know that may sound a little silly, but above all this is still the daily driver and if the need called for it to get to work, i would really appreciate the ability to do so without swapping out the whole suspension. then there is the increased tuning options. the tarmacs are 2-way adjustable, giving me more freedom to find the setting that truely fits me and the roads i drive on. once again, for all that money spent, either way, i want to get the most out of the parts. the flexability of coilovers does play a factor in the decision.

It sounds like a good feature, in theory. But the truth is that coilovers will be significantly more harsh than Ohlins struts and a mild lowering spring setup. You can expect to feel the bumps more with coilovers, the car will bounce more, and you'll hear more suspension noises. I haven't tried coilovers on this car, but I have tried KW V3's on my Hyundai and I regretted the decision ever since. The KW's are considered quality dual-adjustable coilovers but the ride was beyond horrible for my daily commute. The bobblehead effect I experienced with that setup made the STI's bobble feel like nothing. Now coilovers may not be THAT bad in the STI, but my experience with my Hyundai made me never want to put coilovers in a daily driver again.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

The Prodrive's are MUCH stiffer then 215/195, thats the rate for the older GC8 springs I believe.

Prodrive never released their rates for the STi.

That's good to know.

[ex-rex]

for what you guys are saying about the coils, i will just stick with thew strut spring combo. it seems like the smarter way of doing it.