[Greg]

Originally Posted by 4banger

If someone were to have RCE springs and an ALK, how bad would they scrape on the underside of their car?

I have both and do scrape over large speed bumps, but only when I have a couple people in the car. The spot that scrapes is the rear section of the subframe brace just behind the front wheels. Driving solo, I haven't had an issue. I'd like to replace the subframe brace with an after market version for better bracing, lighter weight and more clearance. However, I want to keep the stock engine cover and haven't found a brace that still works with it.

[Arrow]

Here is a thought and a question:

Regarding spring rates I think it's a good idea to begin by considering the tires you plan on using and then think about how hard you are likely push them when cornering. You don't need and probably won't enjoy springs that are stiffer than that.

I've been meaning to ask Myles at RCE about his thoughts on the ideal spring rate for an 05 STi running stock RE070s. If anybody will know it's gotta be him--I doubt anyone has thought and experimented with STi springs more than he has. (I don't know how much this line of thinking is complicated by the choice of anti-roll bars.)

To put a finer point on it: Do the RCE springs have a higher spring rate than I need for either auto-x or 9/10s type HPDE driving at Watkins Glen? Those two are night and day, but that's what I plan on doing with my springs on my RE070s.

Not my intention to hijack the thread--my car is 99% daily driver and 1% track machine. So I'm really looking for a good DD setup.

[LOLSTi]

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

You would recommend the pinks over the prodrives? Why exactly? I have been trying to decide between Pinks, Prodrives, and RCE. I want good handling while retaining day to day drivability. I want the performance of the RCE (and I'm not too concerned with the effects of stiffer rates) but I am worried they will be too low for me in the front since I have to drive in lots of snow in the winter and mountain service roads in the summer.

Prodrives are too mild in all aspects, IMO. The Pinks are a good, proven all around spring for a mild drop/performance boost. The RCEs will (as you said) lower you quite a bit, so I would avoid them.

[RacerXS]

Originally Posted by LOLSTi

Prodrives are too mild in all aspects, IMO. The Pinks are a good, proven all around spring for a mild drop/performance boost. The RCEs will (as you said) lower you quite a bit, so I would avoid them.

I had Pinks & stock struts before I had my KW3's. I don't think there could be a better combination for the stock struts IMO, I REALLY liked them.
I did have the RCE lowering camber plates with them as well.....A really great setup for DD & an occasional track day/Auto-X IMO.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Greg

Ok here's something you don't often hear about the Ohlins. On my stock KYB's I was only able to get -0.4 on one side and -0.7 with the stock camber bolts, and upper strut bearing. With the Ohlins installed, and the stock bolts set to full negative camber, the new results where 1.1 on both sides. This was with the RCE lowering springs so, with stock springs it might be closer to -1.5. So not only do the Ohlins add some negative camber, the mounting holes are more precisely drilled than those of the KYB's. Not really surprise from Ohlins, but I enjoyed the discovery just the same.

Before I go further, let me add that aftermarket camber bolts do have a tendency to loosen up from time to time. If you catch it quickly, it will cost you a new aligment. If you don't, then you might need to replace your tires as well. The cost to recover from a slipped bolt, and risk of my alignment settings "moving" disqualified the bolts, for me.

Given that the Ohlins will likely give you some camber and you are in need of crazy track camber, then you might be fine without bolts or plates. I wanted to replace the stock upper strut bearing with something firmer. So its a Group-N or a camber plate. Since I also wanted more camber, and bolts were not an option, Group-Ns were ruled out. That's how I got to the RCE plates.
Pretty much every one says you need a harder upper strut bearing. If you are going with the Ohlins and either the stock springs or similar wheel rate springs, then I think the stock tops are fine. But then again the title says something about Ultimate, so you are likely headed for something harder. Also I could consider a high degree of adjustablity a requirement for the ultimate suspension, for track or street. So we are now back to camber plates.

Personally I'd put the ALK in the mix as well. I think it will help the handling and characteristics of the car far more than half a degree of camber. Of all the suspension mods the ALK did the most to improve the feeling of being disconnected from the front wheels and improve the linear feel of the wheel under power on/off transitions.

Hope this helps. Keep the questions coming.

We found the same things with the fixed perch struts Greg. Consistent camber left to right is a nice plus. It's nice for Wagon WRX guys to get that little bit of extra camber too.


And just an FYI, all those 15 or so who recently ordered fixed perch Ohlins, they're on their way. We still have a couple left.


- Andrew

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by LOLSTi

Prodrives are too mild in all aspects, IMO. The Pinks are a good, proven all around spring for a mild drop/performance boost. The RCEs will (as you said) lower you quite a bit, so I would avoid them.

Arent the rates of the Prodrives in between the Pinks and the RCE's?

[mtskibum16]

^^^That is what I was thinking. Although, Prodrive never released the rates did they?

[RainMaker]

a few bits of misinformation...

Fixed perch often offers *greater* tire clearance than coilovers. The springs are bigger in diameter, but they are above the top of the tire. Most C/O's are not, and the 2.5" ID springs are larger in diameter than the strut tube of the fixed perch.

Coilovers and fixed perch harshness is relative to how well the dampening is set up for the springs. My 440/340 Ohlins when set are less harsh than any time Ive had the stock strut on. Remember that shock travel thing people hint at on the stock struts? Man it can make a mess for your ride or your handling.

So far, I havent heard of anyone raving more about a suspension than essentially anyone who gets the Ohlins fixed perches and adds the RCE springs. Use the non-lowering camber plates in front and the car shouldnt drag anywhere as long as you dont have some V-limited front lip on it.

If you dont plan on motorsports and you hate debugging noises, don't get a coilover.

Lastly, please dont get camber bolts unless you are willing to pay them alot of attention. I havent heard of any breaking recently, but they do often move. Camber plates create no extra NVH in my experience, and are far more safe and forgettable.

[Sizzle]

^^ great post thanks for sharing.

[mtskibum16]

Does anyone know how the Prodrive and Pink rates compare to each other? People seem to have mixed ideas.

[twiSTies]

Originally Posted by mtskibum16

Does anyone know how the Prodrive and Pink rates compare to each other? People seem to have mixed ideas.

the prodrives are a little bit softer than the pinks.

i actually found the old spring rate chart on my PC at home. i'll make a new updated one for the forum.

[stretch]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

it may not make a lick of sense to you, but the improvement in the corners is why i did it to my wrx. my stock tires more or less stopped squeeling after the spring install and i was driving 5 mph faster (at least) on every turn. bang for the buck, it was a good mod. i never had any problems with my stock struts after more than 17,000 miles, and 3 cornfields of turf'ing.

from what people have said in here, coilovers offer a fairly bumpy ride in comparison to the spring/strut setup. people like me, would like to have an alternative to that, but still make a signifigant improvement, if possible.

i understand the sti is different than the wrx, but to say you don't understand why people do it

The WRX starts with a higher ride height and has longer travel, twin-tube struts. It probably makes sense to lower the car as you're starting with more suspension travel. Still, I bet most of the gain you saw was from the additional camber you got as a side-effect of lowering, not from the lowering itself.

The STI, stock, already has too little suspension travel. It's a completely different situation. Subaru sacrificed suspension travel by going to a monotube strut design- monotubes take up more space, which forced Subaru to use less strut stroke. The car rides on the bump stops and the bump stops nearly double the car's spring rate. This is a fact, I'm not trying to fool you or anything. The predictable consequences account for nearly all of the popular complaints about the STI's handling.

I'm not saying that lowering the car is bad, I'm saying that giving up more suspension travel is bad. Very bad. So, to lower the STI properly, measures have to be taken to increase suspension travel either via shorter bump stops or, preferably, shorter struts. The latter means getting coilovers, but we're talking about street setups here.

For a street setup the stock springs rates (or more specifically, the wheel rates) are already as firm as coilover kits for most other four door cars. They're plenty stiff if paired with decent sway bars. Replacing the awful stock bump stops with shorter ones is all it takes to make the car handle drastically better while improving the car's ride. Paired with sway bars, the combination is pretty fantastic. And cheap.

Now, the stock struts aren't that great, so Ohlins will still improve much. A good damper is invaluable. However, Ohlins are not shorter than the stock struts, and keeping suspension travel is paramount for a fast street setup. Thus, I maintain:

Ohlins
RCE lowering camber plates
STOCK springs
24-27mm sways

On the cheap, cut your stock bump stops instead of buying Ohlins.

[lackskill]

Pinks have a rate of 257 lbs/inch front, 217 lbs/inch rear. I cant find a rate for the STi version of the prodrive spring. The rates listed here and on scoobymods are for the GC8 impreza prodrives.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by stretch

The WRX starts with a higher ride height and has longer travel, twin-tube struts. It probably makes sense to lower the car as you're starting with more suspension travel. Still, I bet most of the gain you saw was from the additional camber you got as a side-effect of lowering, not from the lowering itself.

The STI, stock, already has too little suspension travel. It's a completely different situation. Subaru sacrificed suspension travel by going to a monotube strut design- monotubes take up more space, which forced Subaru to use less strut stroke. The car rides on the bump stops and the bump stops nearly double the car's spring rate. This is a fact, I'm not trying to fool you or anything. The predictable consequences account for nearly all of the popular complaints about the STI's handling.

I'm not saying that lowering the car is bad, I'm saying that giving up more suspension travel is bad. Very bad. So, to lower the STI properly, measures have to be taken to increase suspension travel either via shorter bump stops or, preferably, shorter struts. The latter means getting coilovers, but we're talking about street setups here.

For a street setup the stock springs rates (or more specifically, the wheel rates) are already as firm as coilover kits for most other four door cars. They're plenty stiff if paired with decent sway bars. Replacing the awful stock bump stops with shorter ones is all it takes to make the car handle drastically better while improving the car's ride. Paired with sway bars, the combination is pretty fantastic. And cheap.

Now, the stock struts aren't that great, so Ohlins will still improve much. A good damper is invaluable. However, Ohlins are not shorter than the stock struts, and keeping suspension travel is paramount for a fast street setup. Thus, I maintain:

Ohlins
RCE lowering camber plates
STOCK springs
24-27mm sways

On the cheap, cut your stock bump stops instead of buying Ohlins.

<----owned

thanks for the detailed explanation. your last post explains your point a lot better than before.

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by stretch

The WRX starts with a higher ride height and has longer travel, twin-tube struts. It probably makes sense to lower the car as you're starting with more suspension travel. Still, I bet most of the gain you saw was from the additional camber you got as a side-effect of lowering, not from the lowering itself.

The STI, stock, already has too little suspension travel. It's a completely different situation. Subaru sacrificed suspension travel by going to a monotube strut design- monotubes take up more space, which forced Subaru to use less strut stroke. The car rides on the bump stops and the bump stops nearly double the car's spring rate. This is a fact, I'm not trying to fool you or anything. The predictable consequences account for nearly all of the popular complaints about the STI's handling.

I'm not saying that lowering the car is bad, I'm saying that giving up more suspension travel is bad. Very bad. So, to lower the STI properly, measures have to be taken to increase suspension travel either via shorter bump stops or, preferably, shorter struts. The latter means getting coilovers, but we're talking about street setups here.

For a street setup the stock springs rates (or more specifically, the wheel rates) are already as firm as coilover kits for most other four door cars. They're plenty stiff if paired with decent sway bars. Replacing the awful stock bump stops with shorter ones is all it takes to make the car handle drastically better while improving the car's ride. Paired with sway bars, the combination is pretty fantastic. And cheap.

Now, the stock struts aren't that great, so Ohlins will still improve much. A good damper is invaluable. However, Ohlins are not shorter than the stock struts, and keeping suspension travel is paramount for a fast street setup. Thus, I maintain:

Ohlins
RCE lowering camber plates
STOCK springs
24-27mm sways

On the cheap, cut your stock bump stops instead of buying Ohlins.

I thought this baby was gone? All lowering springs (and even stock springs) ride on the bump stops!

^^^ The bumpstop thread LIVES!!!