[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by Greg

Its not. I wish I had a button on the dash like the one in my buddies Lexus. But be aware that camber and toe will change as you raise and lower the car. The camber changes are not a huge deal, but I would re-do the toe after making a hieght change.

about the camber, with adjustable plates, i was going to mark the alignment points of both ride heights so that i could switch from one "setting" to the other and the camber would be close to correct for the situation. about the toe, i would only be making the change for 1 or 2 days, based on snow conditions, so the slight out-of-toe situation does not bother me. i wasn't going to be driving like an azz in that type of situation anyway.

Originally Posted by Greg

The STI front suspension geometry (MacPherson strut) results in a tad bit of positive camber under compression. As this occurs on the outside wheel, its super bad for the understeer story. The 27mm bar keeps the outside wheel from compressing (as much) and which results in less positive camber added at the worst possible time. Stiffer springs also help as they alow less suspension movement. Also adding more static camber helps. I have the 27mm (on the soft setting, 29mm is the hard setting). Yes, it does work but the added stress is hard on the endlinks and causes a bit more window creaking. The front end links won't break like the backs but will need frequent re-torquing (at least for some users). Also on low traction surfaces like a wet road, the larger bar will reduce the amount of mechanical grip. Its good for the dry roads, or the track.

while this answers my question to a large degree, it spawns a few more. i am not interested in a loss of mechanical grip. i still want to be stable, predictable, and reliable in wet and light snow situations. i like to work on cars and all, but swapping out sways every winter would just agitate the crap out of me. it was recommended above that a 24mm front be used. that should give me a 25mm on the hardest setting, right? switching between the different endlink mount holes is a lot easier than swapping the whole bar. i imagine this would slightly detract from the "ultimate street suspension" idea, but for me, the ultimate is function and versatility.

the fact of the matter is that the majority of my modding experience is with fwd cars. i learned a lot while i had my wrx about the awd platform, but there is a large blackhole in the experience department. i don't know what i will like better until i try something out. take adding negative camber for an example. i had my alignment specs pretty good, as far as people on the boards were concerned. the reality is that at speeds of 85+ the car would "float" in the lane on the highway. it was not twitchy or anything, but the car seems to swerve back and forth within the lane a lot easier than it used to. while turning on the country roads was much improved, it was not worth the trade off for my daily driver.

this also lends to my question of "do i really need camber plates?" if i only plan on running a small amount of negative camber, would the plates really be necessary? wouldn't the group n top hats and adjustable bolts be good enough?

it seems that the ohlins perches and a set of springs (tbd later) will be the foundation of my suspension build. i just can't get away from the fact that they will be far more comfortable around town. i still really like the idea of height adjustability, but for the performance to be only slightly better, i will keep with the strut comfort. it is going to take some time to get the scratch together, tho

btw, thank you to everyone for taking part in this discussion. i was reading and reading and reading and was having trouble putting all the info together in a usable way.

[Pyro]

Great thread. Now that the 3/36k part of my warranty is gone, I'm looking for the "perfect" street suspension too. I was originally thinking of coilovers, but I don't want to have to ship them off to get rebuilt every couple of years. The NVH and ride quality issues mentioned here finally swayed me enough to even think of paying $2k for a set of dampers. Thanks (I think?)

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by stretch

Anyone who recommends you put lowering springs on a street car... well, I don't want to insult nearly everyone (seeing as that's the popular recommendation), but removing what little suspension travel there is on a street car doesn't make a lick of sense.

You do have a point. I've always looked for the solutions that don't drastically reduce suspension travel. I may reconsider the stock springs / RCE lowering camber plates setup. I did, in fact, consider that setup before I got the RCE springs.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by Pyro

The NVH and ride quality issues mentioned here finally swayed me enough to even think of paying $2k for a set of dampers. Thanks (I think?)

yeah, i thought they were a lot at first, too.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by SWortham

You do have a point. I've always looked for the solutions that don't drastically reduce suspension travel. I may reconsider the stock springs / RCE lowering camber plates setup. I did, in fact, consider that setup before I got the RCE springs.

i understand the point about maximizing travel, too. i just feel that is a small sacrifice for the performance gained. in other cars, i would agree with you 100%, but in subbies it seems to be a different experience. i guess i was really spoiled on my crucial springs.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

this also lends to my question of "do i really need camber plates?" if i only plan on running a small amount of negative camber, would the plates really be necessary? wouldn't the group n top hats and adjustable bolts be good enough?

No, you don't need camber plates. You'd be fine with camber bolts. If you can, just choose a camber bolt based on what you want to run your alignment at, and then max out the adjustment in the bolts to minimize the chance of them slipping. I never had issues with camber bolts slipping in my Hyundai but others have reported problems with the STI. And I'd shoot for -1.5 degrees camber up front for a car that'll never see the track.

[Tomerville]

So why are the SPT/STI coilovers not popular? For me, durability and not having to do rebuilds is very important.

[jph]

Originally Posted by Tomerville

So why are the SPT/STI coilovers not popular? For me, durability and not having to do rebuilds is very important.

price vs. features i'm guessing.
people looking for coilovers can spend less money and get more.

but i'm not looking for more

still not sure what i'll end up getting.


J.

[LOLSTi]

Originally Posted by Tomerville

So why are the SPT/STI coilovers not popular? For me, durability and not having to do rebuilds is very important.

If you're worried about durability/rebuilds, coilovers aren't for you.

[flatthump]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

i understand the point about maximizing travel, too. i just feel that is a small sacrifice for the performance gained. in other cars, i would agree with you 100%, but in subbies it seems to be a different experience. i guess i was really spoiled on my crucial springs.

You would think so....But that is not what we've learned about the stock STi struts..

[Tomerville]

Originally Posted by LOLSTi

If you're worried about durability/rebuilds, coilovers aren't for you.

I realize rebuilds are inevitable with coilovers, and it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Frequency of these rebuilds is an important factor for me though considering I don't have a garage, tools, or much mechanical proficiency at all haha.

[ex-rex]

Originally Posted by flatthump

You would think so....But that is not what we've learned about the stock STi struts..

i certainly won't say i know anything about the sti struts yet. i am still too new to this car (my first payment is being made friday). i was not planning on finding out either. the whole reason i posted this thread is to figure out what way was going to be my best route to do my suspension right this time. i have done a piece here and there and all provided great improvements. with this car, i just want to do it right.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by ex-rex

"do i really need camber plates?" if i only plan on running a small amount of negative camber, would the plates really be necessary? wouldn't the group n top hats and adjustable bolts be good enough?

Ok here's something you don't often hear about the Ohlins. On my stock KYB's I was only able to get -0.4 on one side and -0.7 with the stock camber bolts, and upper strut bearing. With the Ohlins installed, and the stock bolts set to full negative camber, the new results where 1.1 on both sides. This was with the RCE lowering springs so, with stock springs it might be closer to -1.5. So not only do the Ohlins add some negative camber, the mounting holes are more precisely drilled than those of the KYB's. Not really surprise from Ohlins, but I enjoyed the discovery just the same.

Before I go further, let me add that aftermarket camber bolts do have a tendency to loosen up from time to time. If you catch it quickly, it will cost you a new aligment. If you don't, then you might need to replace your tires as well. The cost to recover from a slipped bolt, and risk of my alignment settings "moving" disqualified the bolts, for me.

Given that the Ohlins will likely give you some camber and you are in need of crazy track camber, then you might be fine without bolts or plates. I wanted to replace the stock upper strut bearing with something firmer. So its a Group-N or a camber plate. Since I also wanted more camber, and bolts were not an option, Group-Ns were ruled out. That's how I got to the RCE plates.
Pretty much every one says you need a harder upper strut bearing. If you are going with the Ohlins and either the stock springs or similar wheel rate springs, then I think the stock tops are fine. But then again the title says something about Ultimate, so you are likely headed for something harder. Also I could consider a high degree of adjustablity a requirement for the ultimate suspension, for track or street. So we are now back to camber plates.

Personally I'd put the ALK in the mix as well. I think it will help the handling and characteristics of the car far more than half a degree of camber. Of all the suspension mods the ALK did the most to improve the feeling of being disconnected from the front wheels and improve the linear feel of the wheel under power on/off transitions.

Hope this helps. Keep the questions coming.

[mtskibum16]

Originally Posted by LOLSTi

Ohlins + Pinks.

You would recommend the pinks over the prodrives? Why exactly? I have been trying to decide between Pinks, Prodrives, and RCE. I want good handling while retaining day to day drivability. I want the performance of the RCE (and I'm not too concerned with the effects of stiffer rates) but I am worried they will be too low for me in the front since I have to drive in lots of snow in the winter and mountain service roads in the summer.

[4banger]

If someone were to have RCE springs and an ALK, how bad would they scrape on the underside of their car?