[Parker]

I purchased the RCE's and had them installed about 3 weeks ago along with Group-N top hats front & rear and the sways in my sig. My first impression was they handled well, were a little stiffer than I could remember the stocks being and had very little lift & dive. They do react to every road imperfection but not always in a bad way. I prepared myself for this knowing that the ride would be a little harsh at times but getting rid of the bobblehead was one of the main reasons for purchasing the springs as well as tophats.

Now that i've done more and more driving around town, I don't think the bobblehead ever really left, at least not like others say it has with the same setup. Unless I have a bad perception of what bobblehead is, I still feel it quite frequently.

Before I made my purchase, I was between the RCEs and the Prodrives but chose the RCEs because of the praise they received. Now I am starting to think I want to purchase the Prodrives and sell my RCEs...but I dont know if it is these springs or springs in general.

I definitely like how neutral the car feels in turns and how the steering feels but could that be more from the sways?

I am in a tough spot, I don't know what to do next. What do you think?

[r12rex]

I would not necessarily blame it on the springs. I think your culprit is the stock STi seats. They are very heavy sprung I guess you would say. They have stiff springs which causes you to bounce around abruptly. I believe changing your front seats (which is quite expensive to be honest) is your best bet. Softer sidewall tires would help with the bobblehead you feel. Ohlins will help as well. All comes at a high price. As far as I know, the Prodrives are a bit softer, but not too much. The choice is yours. I say stick to the set-up you have now, but if it completely becomes unbareable, get a ride in some Prodrive equipped STi's and see first hand if you like that. Maybe you guys can do a straight swap? Just trying to give suggestions. Others can chime in. Good luck!



-Ryan

[evilSTi7]

The prodive's are not going to change much at all. The biggest cause of the "bobblehead" is actually the stock seats. People who get rid of them or mod them say that it really gets rid of all the bobbling. The other alternative that would help would be new struts or coilovers.

[twiSTies]

try modding your seats then look into strut replacements, it isn't the springs.

[70s-gearhead]

I have the Prodrive springs and my experience is the same as yours. As expected, the car handles better - flatter cornering and less dive under hard breaking etc. Around town and on long drives the ride is less comfortable and I get more complaints from passengers/wife/kids that they bounce too much. Even when I switched to my winter tires with a much softer sidewall things didn't change all that much (I can feel the difference but the passengers disagree).

I auto-cross a lot so I can accept the compromise for the improved performance but it was a little disappointing that all the reviews I read on Prodrives said that the bobble-head would be gone and the ride would be better. I was beginnig to think I should have went with the RCE springs based on all the good reviews.

My next step is to install the Ohlin fixed perch struts - I know the adjustability will help in my autox setup and I expect that the daily drive will be improved as well.

A pair of good seats will cost as much if not more than the struts and I don't think they will make me any faster around the course.

My current suspension set up is:
Cobb tubular front bars with Cobb Endlinks
Cobb tubular adjustable rear bar with Kartboy Links (soft setting for street)
Prodrive springs
Cusco Camber plates
Whiteline ALK
Steering Rack bushings

[Parker]

well the seats aren't going anywhere anytime soon so that idea is out. I do have softer tires than the stockers (bridgestone g-force sports) and replacing the struts is a very expensive step right now. I'll probably just grin and bear it and tell people to not ***** if they don't like it!

[SWortham]

I'm running RCE springs all around right now. But I'm using stock struts up front and Ohlins struts in rear because I accidentally broke one of the front Ohlins struts during installation.

Anyway, I noticed that the rear of the car is much more controlled and overall the bobble head effect has been reduced. However, I can still feel the bobble in the front end. I'm sure the springy stock seats have something to do with it. But I can hardly wait to get the front Ohlins installed.

[IGoFast1589]

Originally Posted by Parker

I purchased the RCE's and had them installed about 3 weeks ago along with Group-N top hats front & rear and the sways in my sig. My first impression was they handled well, were a little stiffer than I could remember the stocks being and had very little lift & dive. They do react to every road imperfection but not always in a bad way. I prepared myself for this knowing that the ride would be a little harsh at times but getting rid of the bobblehead was one of the main reasons for purchasing the springs as well as tophats.

Now that i've done more and more driving around town, I don't think the bobblehead ever really left, at least not like others say it has with the same setup. Unless I have a bad perception of what bobblehead is, I still feel it quite frequently.

Before I made my purchase, I was between the RCEs and the Prodrives but chose the RCEs because of the praise they received. Now I am starting to think I want to purchase the Prodrives and sell my RCEs...but I dont know if it is these springs or springs in general.

I definitely like how neutral the car feels in turns and how the steering feels but could that be more from the sways?

I am in a tough spot, I don't know what to do next. What do you think?

Maybe you have that feeling because the springs have not settled with the car yet. Give it some time and maybe that feeling will go away. You should also get camber plates in the front and an anti-lift kit, that should help also.

[austinpike]

I have pretty much given up on eliminating the bobblehead. There are some roads where the car is just going to bounce, period.

It's funny, on these forums, as each new product comes out, it seems like it is "the answer." First the JDM Pinks, when that was all that was available. Then the Prodrives. Then the Whiteline G4s (first coilovers for the '05's.) Now the Ohlins and/or RCE springs.

I have been on Pinks, Prodrives, and now Ohlins fixed perch. They all bounce.

I did the driver's seat spring "mod." Very little, if any difference.

I had Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's on for awhile (I challenge you to find a tire with a softer sidewall.)

Granted I am running stock springs with the Ohlins, so I can go back to stock class for autox. Something like the RCEs would probably be a better match. I can see where they will be a substantial improvement on the track, but the bounce I was trying to get rid of goes from as bad as stock (on soft) to completely ridiculous (on full firm.)

I think people really have a different idea of what the bobblehead is, based on what roads they drive on. There is sort of the harsh crash, possibly with some rebounding, over random bumps. Then there is that specific oscillating expansion-joint laden man-boob jiggling type of bounce that happens on certain concrete freeways. The first can be improved on to some degree, the second, not so much. I think it is a function of the car's wheelbase, plus the nature of inverted struts, period. One member on here who moved from AZ to MN, commented that he had never experienced anything like the freeways here (lots of freeze/thaw = huge expansion joints to compensate.) From what I have read, some of the freeways in SoCal may be similar (not sure, maybe something to do with earthquake design?)

I have the Prodrive springs... the ride is less comfortable and I get more complaints from passengers/wife/kids

I'm a little surprised there - I did feel like the Prodrives improved the ride somewhat over stock, over random bumps anyway. And they seemed a little less less "crashy" than the pinks. It certainly wasn't the order of magnitude I was hoping for that would make my wife hate riding in the car any less.

It is worth mentioning that I have really gotten obsessive about testing on one paticular stretch of road, and maybe that is just not fair to the car, and it certainly taints my opinion of all these parts. Nothing short of an 80's caddy is going to ride very well over this road (well my S-10 Blazer does OK. ) It is not some old busted up freeway either, actually pretty new and smooth, except for the expansion joints. Once the freeways get a little older here, they put blacktop over the concrete, and on those the car feels awesome... On 90% of the roads I drive, I really have no complaints, and I think that all the parts I have tried have helped to some degree with daily comfort. It just so happens that one freeway I drive practically every day, happens to be the worst at bringing out this aspect of the car. So I get to be reminded of it constantly. I was following another STi one day, watching the car bounce up and down like a cut spring Honda, thinking "man, is that what my car looks like...?"

One thing that makes me feel a little better - the Evo IX I test drove bounced just as much on my test freeway, and had a harsher ride on normal roads as well. (unfortunately I didn't get to try the MR w/Bilsteins.) I don't know why you don't see any carping about bobblehead on the EvoM forums - maybe STi owners just aren't hardcore enough.


Anyway, cliff notes, from what I have read on the RCEs, I think the Prodrives would be a slight improvement for daily comfort, but probably not the level of difference you are looking for. And the Ohlins, in my experience, are not a magic bullet for this particuar issue either. Whatever you end up doing, try to find someone with a similar setup to try out first, even if it means driving a couple hours to do so. And drive your car back-to-back, over the same roads.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by austinpike

I have pretty much given up on eliminating the bobblehead. There are some roads where the car is just going to bounce, period.

True, true. But I'm still very pleased with my Prodrive spring/Group N tops combination as far as reducing bobblehead (I would say "eliminate" but apparently "bobblehead" means different things to different people). I'll stand by my recommendation of the combination as a way to reduce the needless harshness of the stock setup. I daily drive my car, quite a bit lately (160 miles/day), over all kinds of roads. Ride quality is not my complaint, road noise is!

I did the driver's seat spring "mod." Very little, if any difference.

I think the seat thing may be specific to driver weight. Also I have a feeling that it may have to do with how roads are paved in a particular part of the country. For example there are continuous-run concrete paving machines which produce odd little waves in the road surface; when I run over stretches of that kind of paving I distinctly feel my body bouncing up and down on the seat. But that's the only time I feel it.

One member on here who moved from AZ to MN, commented that he had never experienced anything like the freeways here (lots of freeze/thaw = huge expansion joints to compensate.)

Horizontal expansion joints are the single place I think the Prodrives/Group N's are harsher than stock. But they have to be the nasty crashers to bring out the difference. I don't see very many of those around here.

And the Ohlins, in my experience, are not a magic bullet for this particuar issue either.

So sorry to hear that. They were on my to-do list.

[RaceComp Engineering]

I have followed this thread and I would like to this.

I think everyone has a different expectation of what lowering springs should do and will do. I think in this case the thread starter WONT be happy with ANY spring on his stock STI struts. I think ALOT of people forget how stiff the stock struts are. The purpose of our springs is PERFORMANCE, with a good amount of drivability considering the spring rate. we have NEVER said they are anything other than that. When people read the reviews each person comes from a different background with different expectations also. So this compounds things BIG TIME. So when some dude who had a S2000 with Teins and 18/16 Kg springs ,..who then bought an STI..and put RCE springs on it. OR..the average guy who autocrosses and does track days and WANTS a firm ride,..this person had a super to moderatly stiff M3, or Mustang,.or whatever and not LOVES his RCE springs.

These reviews combined with the fact that MOST people didnt read the entire thread. If I had a dollar for each person who told me they didnt read the entire, yet asked me about the springs,........................my piint being, there were ALOT Of reviews written and its key to read them to take in the perspective of each person and the pro's and con's of each.

With that said, I can promise that if you go the route you talking with the other brand springs, your bobble with NOT go away.

The first thing to realize is that the BOBBLE is a function of the STRUTS and that the ONLY way to get rid of that is to get softer struts.

Myles

[RaceComp Engineering]

As far as the Ohlins go, people AGAIN..forget that the Ohlins have a wide range. If you dont match the range of them with the springs you have its like anythuing else thats not set up right. Meaning,......if you use STOCK springs with the Ohlins you cant expect the Ohlins to make gold out of POO. IF you use the Ohlins with the RCE springs, you will have a compromised ride when the Ohlins are set to full soft, as thats like useing the RCE springs on WRX struts.

Sorry but these are no brainers, so yes it bothers me to see people write what they write when alot of clueless on set up and basics about these cars.
So when I start thinking about numbers and averages, it makes sense as always. Most people are super happy with their RCE springs, because most wanted a more aggressive lowering spring. I would say even more are happy with their Ohlins because most spent ALOT of time with the stock and know that the Ohlins are night and day better over stock, ESP when mated with the correct springs and ESP when used in the best range of adjustment for the springs used.

Myles

[Parker]

Thanks Myles. Yes I am a huge noob when it comes to suspension setups and don't really understand how the struts & springs work with each other and how to mix/match different setups. I was persuaded by those people who obviously track their car and DD them too and purchased/installed the RCE's.

I understand a lot of people show loyalty to items they purchase and rarely talk bad about them so of course they'll hype them up and I was obviously blind to other aspects of this purchase. Overall, I am incredibly impressed with this spring as far as handling is concerned and i've received numerous compliments about how much more stable my car is now.

I'll give it several months and see if I still feel the same afterwards. Thank you all who have chimed in a given fair responses.

[GTWORX.com]

Originally Posted by austinpike

It is worth mentioning that I have really gotten obsessive about testing on one paticular stretch of road, and maybe that is just not fair to the car, and it certainly taints my opinion of all these parts. Nothing short of an 80's caddy is going to ride very well over this road (well my S-10 Blazer does OK. )

This should be in all capital bolded letters in size 72 font with a huge disclaimer before you complain about bounciness/ride quality. Just saying.

It DEFINITELY is unfair to complain about ride quality on a stretch of road that will upset everything but an 80's Caddy (or an SUV with a ton of travel and soft suspension). I'm really not sure what you would expect out of ANY car over that stretch of road, much less a car that is even slightly of a sporting nature.

Originally Posted by austinpike

On 90% of the roads I drive, I really have no complaints, and I think that all the parts I have tried have helped to some degree with daily comfort.

Then what's the problem?

I mean, I understand that Ohlins with any spring won't ride well on that stretch of pavement, but what set-up will? What sports car will? What family car will? What on 4 wheels will? etc. etc. etc.

I'm not trying to flame you, but I'm just curious what the point of complaining about ride quality is on a certain set-up over a stretch of road that will make ANY car bouncy.


- Andrew

[RaceComp Engineering]

Kool.

I think andrew posted AFTER you sent yours.

Myles