[wizzman]

I am going to be running RCE springs on some WRX struts with Koni inserts. Originally the plan was to install some PDE camber plates with the setup up front but the more pictures I look at the more I think even the 1/4" it will raise the front might be enough to bug me. I am all about function over form but as I am dropping over a grand into redoing the suspension I want it to look decent as well.

Since the RCEs lack the repeatablity of settings the PDE plates have, is it possible to set the street alignment all the way to one side while still getting up to a degree of negative camber for the street? I would like to be able to switch from street setting to a more aggressive setting for auto x. But when returning to the street setting it seems as though it would be impossible to get it back exactly where it was unless the setting was all the way to one side.

Also what are the advantages/drawbacks of installing the plate canted so that adjustment effects caster as well?

[BlueGold]

What makes you certain the RCE plates "lack the repeatablity of settings"??

[Greg]

While not as exact as the PDE plates, the RCE plates do have indents that make it possible to return to a previous setting (see the pic below) Mark the current setting with small amount of white paint to make locating the street setting easy. Your "track setup" can be all the way in, with the fine adjustment being done by the camber bolt during the alignment. Note that adding camber will also give you a bit of toe-out which is probably good for Auto-X.

It won't be as exact as the PDE plates, but very do-able. The other thing to consider is ride height. I have the RCE springs on the non-lowering camber plates. As a DD its a little too low for my tastes. I also have the ALK installed which lowers the subframe brace, and that is what is scraping.

If I had it to do over again, I'd still go with the RCE plates. They are readily available and extreemly well built.




Adding caster has its pros and cons, mostly pros, the biggest one being more dynamic camber. However the amount of caster you get from a plate is very small (something like, less than half a degree). To get much dynamic camber out of such a small caster adjustment, you have to crank the wheels pretty far. You might see this in an auto-x, but not likely on a road course or the street. When you use a plate for caster as well as camber, you will loose some amount negative camber since the strut top has to stay in the circle.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Well said Greg. If you so desire, you can mark our plates and switch between different settings. However, personally I would recommend picking one setting and sticking with it so that you don't adversely affect toe. You can run -2 or 2.5 degrees of camber without having too large of an effect on tire wear or daily driveability.

-Dan

[wizzman]

Originally Posted by BlueGold

What makes you certain the RCE plates "lack the repeatablity of settings"??

I just really like the repeatablity of the PDEs because they have separate hole slots for each 0.2 degree of camber. Yes the RCEs have the marks I guess I just want to know that I can return my alignment to exactly as it was when I go back to street settings.

Originally Posted by Greg

While not as exact as the PDE plates, the RCE plates do have indents that make it possible to return to a previous setting (see the pic below) Mark the current setting with small amount of white paint to make locating the street setting easy. Your "track setup" can be all the way in, with the fine adjustment being done by the camber bolt during the alignment. Note that adding camber will also give you a bit of toe-out which is probably good for Auto-X.

It won't be as exact as the PDE plates, but very do-able. The other thing to consider is ride height. I have the RCE springs on the non-lowering camber plates. As a DD its a little too low for my tastes. I also have the ALK installed which lowers the subframe brace, and that is what is scraping.

If I had it to do over again, I'd still go with the RCE plates. They are readily available and extreemly well built.

Adding caster has its pros and cons, mostly pros, the biggest one being more dynamic camber. However the amount of caster you get from a plate is very small (something like, less than half a degree). To get much dynamic camber out of such a small caster adjustment, you have to crank the wheels pretty far. You might see this in an auto-x, but not likely on a road course or the street. When you use a plate for caster as well as camber, you will loose some amount negative camber since the strut top has to stay in the circle.

Well this makes me feel better about the RCEs. Also consider that I have a WRX which has less extra body pieces on the front to scrape or rub and I am not running an ALK.

Seems like there is not alot to gain from running the plates canted for the minor caster change.

[LOLSTi]

RCE needs a lowering for non-lowering camber plate trade in exchange program.

[wizzman]

Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering

Well said Greg. If you so desire, you can mark our plates and switch between different settings. However, personally I would recommend picking one setting and sticking with it so that you don't adversely affect toe. You can run -2 or 2.5 degrees of camber without having too large of an effect on tire wear or daily driveability.

-Dan

My last question still han't been answered. How much negative camber can be attained with the camber plate adjusted all the way to the outside of the car? (Since all the way out is a repeatable position that will always be spot on. I could then switch to a moree aggresive setting for auto x and HPDE days)

[BlueGold]

I have a set of the non-lowering plates waiting to be installed but I have two questions. Is the left side of the car ALWAYS the drivers side?? How would -1.25 to -1.50 front camber and -1.0 rear camber work for a daily driver??

[LOLSTi]

Originally Posted by BlueGold

I have a set of the non-lowering plates waiting to be installed but I have two questions. Is the left side of the car ALWAYS the drivers side?? How would -1.25 to -1.50 front camber and -1.0 rear camber work for a daily driver??

Would work great. I would go closer to -*2 in the front with -1* in the rear.

Any chance you want to trade for some nifty lowering plates? Can't hurt to ask.

Which left do you mean? Facing the car? Swapping the plates will net you more caster with a little lowerceiling on the available camber, but shouldn't matter if you want less than 3* anyhow.

[LOLSTi]

Oh, and BG, you're welcome to take the STi out for a spin anytime, I'm in Harrison a lot... You can check out -3* of camber and some pretty worn MXs.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by wizzman

My last question still han't been answered. How much negative camber can be attained with the camber plate adjusted all the way to the outside of the car? (Since all the way out is a repeatable position that will always be spot on. I could then switch to a moree aggresive setting for auto x and HPDE days)

I don't think that has ever been checked. Its just not something most STI owners are interested in doing. I don't think you'd want to run the strut that far to the outside of the car as you might start to run into the some clearance issues.

I estimate that the end to adjusttment range (omitting the camber bolt) is approximately 4 degrees. That's quite a bit further than you'd want to adjust for a street vs track setup.

The other thing I will point out here is camber is more a "squishy" number than you might think. The numbers you will read here are a starting point. If you are tuning your camber, forget about some arbitrary number you read on the internet. Get your self a proper tire pyrometer and get some readings from the tires after each run (outside center and inside). If the outside is hotter than the middle or the inside, add more camber. Keep going until they are close to even or slightly cooler on the outer edge. Once you get there, mark it on your plate and in your track log book. That's the correct camber setting for your car, driving style and the venue. Toe is another story. It needs to zero to keep tire wear down. Thats why you need to return it the starting point before leaving the event.

[CGMDan]

Wizzman- I understand your question, but do you intend to have the car aligned to a street setting and then when you get to the track adjust the plates to get more camber yourself??

If thats the case, it's not that simple. The toe change is so great it's not doable. When I had my car aligned with RCE plates last month, we played with settings to see what would happen. With about -1.5 deg. of camber dialed and 0 toe, we added another 1 deg neg camber for -2.5 neg. total, it knocked the toe out to almost 1 degree. And that was just on one side.

So my point is, unless you have some easy way of doing toe changes at the track, it's not an easy back and forth between settings.

[wizzman]

Originally Posted by Greg

I don't think that has ever been checked. Its just not something most STI owners are interested in doing. I don't think you'd want to run the strut that far to the outside of the car as you might start to run into the some clearance issues.

I estimate that the end to adjusttment range (omitting the camber bolt) is approximately 4 degrees. That's quite a bit further than you'd want to adjust for a street vs track setup.

The other thing I will point out here is camber is more a "squishy" number than you might think. The numbers you will read here are a starting point. If you are tuning your camber, forget about some arbitrary number you read on the internet. Get your self a proper tire pyrometer and get some readings from the tires after each run (outside center and inside). If the outside is hotter than the middle or the inside, add more camber. Keep going until they are close to even or slightly cooler on the outer edge. Once you get there, mark it on your plate and in your track log book. That's the correct camber setting for your car, driving style and the venue. Toe is another story. It needs to zero to keep tire wear down. Thats why you need to return it the starting point before leaving the event.

Yep, this is why I want some plates so I can find the sweet spot for auto x and track days. Its returning it to the home street setting I will have been professionaly aligned at that truly has 0 toe that is my main concern.

As mentioned above by RCE above is it unreasonable to switch like that? I would probably be happy with a happy medium that was still fine for the street honestly. I just do so much highway driving I don't need extra twitchy steering and abormal tire wear from extra camber for street driving. But I do enough motorsports to want the ability to run some aggressive camber for those days.

[wizzman]

Originally Posted by CGMDan

Wizzman- I understand your question, but do you intend to have the car aligned to a street setting and then when you get to the track adjust the plates to get more camber yourself??

If thats the case, it's not that simple. The toe change is so great it's not doable. When I had my car aligned with RCE plates last month, we played with settings to see what would happen. With about -1.5 deg. of camber dialed and 0 toe, we added another 1 deg neg camber for -2.5 neg. total, it knocked the toe out to almost 1 degree. And that was just on one side.

So my point is, unless you have some easy way of doing toe changes at the track, it's not an easy back and forth between settings.

Wow, I was under the impression that teh effect on toe would not be that significant. Yes I will have it professionally aligned at a performance alignment shop for teh street.

Sounding more like I need to just choose a camber setting and stick to that.

[flatthump]

Originally Posted by wizzman

Sounding more like I need to just choose a camber setting and stick to that.

Or you could do this..HowTo: 4 wheel alignment (string method for toe and thrust)