[FT@SGP]

Well, I am speculating, but yes they may.

First, one of the issues that gets stuck in my mind is that due to the shape of the rear anti-roll bar and its bends on the driver side, I do not see how the bar can slide enough to hit the wheel and cause a catastrophic case. Also, I would imagine that even if the bar slides enough, it should hit the brake caliper before it even gets close to the wheel or rotor. So, I am baffled seeing so many vendors somewhat supporting this "unsafe" idea. I guess I might be missing something from the picture.

Also, the stiffer springs will certainly reduce the amount that the bar will need to be twisted once the bar helps initialize the springs on loading during the start of a corner. I can *imagine* this helping the bar not twist on to itself, but would it prevent it? I do not know. I still am quite puzzeled as to how the bar can twist at all that much to actually break the lateral link. So, I must be missing something here as well.

All my conversation with manufacturers thus far has been that they are not very supportive of the situations that has been presented provided that the bar is installed properly with grease on the right places and no grease on others.

But, I personally used silicon grease both on the outside and inside of the bushings which is generally a no-no for racing, but I did not want too many noises in the car as we give rides to customers to help them with their decision on the handling of our STi. So,.... all I can say at this time is that we do not have those problems, but we carry 10/9 springs which are significantly stiffer than stock obviously. Our body roll is minimized and loading on the A/R bar is relatively small as well.

But we are also just a vendor and not a manufacturer, so we need to have confidence on what we can recommend and not recommend. Hence, I am depleting all available avenues to us with manufacturers to our best ability to find some answers.

But because this is related to safety, everyone is taking their time for one reason to another in responding or passing any sort of judgement

[staticx313]

stiml8n... i dont know , i mean i ifgured i should have the problem right if this is true?? Mine are fine though, although I ordered the poltek new endlinks with uretane bushing and collars... no movement period... that should fix this problem.

FT... why grease? I didnt use any grease and it doesnt squeak or make noise and i havent had anyproblems?

Robert~

[STIml8n]

interesting, then it may be a 1 in 300 type thing that i heard from someone...

[FT@SGP]

Originally Posted by staticx313

FT... why grease? I didnt use any grease and it doesnt squeak or make noise and i havent had anyproblems?

Robert~

A/R bars when not greased will put a little more stress on end links and they will make a relatively faint cluncking noise. Also, if the bushings are on the tight side, they may make screeching sounds, usually heard only be rear-seating passengers. Those were the thoughts when I put the grease on the bushings, which we should not have as the bushings are relatively soft rubber anyways.

So, you certainly did better than I, and if I were to do it, I would not put any grease frankly

[RiX]

Originally Posted by FT@SGP

Well, I am speculating, but yes they may.
First, one of the issues that gets stuck in my mind is that due to the shape of the rear anti-roll bar and its bends on the driver side, I do not see how the bar can slide enough to hit the wheel and cause a catastrophic case. Also, I would imagine that even if the bar slides enough, it should hit the brake caliper before it even gets close to the wheel or rotor. So, I am baffled seeing so many vendors somewhat supporting this "unsafe" idea. I guess I might be missing something from the picture.

With all due respect, FT -- you might be missing something from the picture. Take a look at the attached pic and see how close the end link got to the tyre. (This is the passenger side of the pic I had not previously posted.)

Due to the inverted position of the sway bar, it still had some lateral movement, and when turning 90 degrees even at a slow speed, it would make rubbing noise. (Not sure if it were the end link or the sway bar that was rubbing against the tyre, though.)

Not sure what might have happened, had I driven faster / sharper with the inverted sway bar like this, but I don't think my mechanic / other vendors' speculation that things could have developed much worse is all that far-fetched.

Originally Posted by FT@SGP

All my conversation with manufacturers thus far has been that they are not very supportive of the situations that has been presented provided that the bar is installed properly with grease on the right places and no grease on others.

Hmm, I don't think my bar installation involved any greasing... I was at the garage watching the actual install. Where are the right / wrong places to grease?

-Rich

[FT@SGP]

Originally Posted by rjhang

With all due respect, FT -- you might be missing something from the picture. Take a look at the attached pic and see how close the end link got to the tyre. (This is the passenger side of the pic I had not previously posted.)

You might be right, I really cannot argue with the pictures. However, there is another aspect to the issue. Maily because we push our car pretty hard (evidenced with the lastest crash ), we try to keep it in top shape by checking all consumable items rigorously. This includes all oils, brakes, suspension components, and A/R bar and end-links. It is just part of our maintenance routine. Most regular drivers don't have to do that obviously, but it seems that they may need to add regular checks of the end-links with stock or aftermarket A/R bars. Looking at you picture, it looks to me that the end-link bottom attachment is giving away and I do not think that is something that would happen in an instant, but somewhat gradually. So, I think it is possible to catch such failures in time before they become a bigger issue.

Also, it seem clear that the so-called STi Pink bits are not necessarily stronger, but probably lighter than stock components. As all learned from past experience and with this topic that just because a part carries the "Subaru" or "STi" label does not necessarily mean it is *better* for some given conditions. We always expect the factory parts to perform better no question, but one also has to define what the word "perform" actually means, IMHO.

Originally Posted by rjhang

Due to the inverted position of the sway bar, it still had some lateral movement, and when turning 90 degrees even at a slow speed, it would make rubbing noise. (Not sure if it were the end link or the sway bar that was rubbing against the tyre, though.)

Not sure what might have happened, had I driven faster / sharper with the inverted sway bar like this, but I don't think my mechanic / other vendors' speculation that things could have developed much worse is all that far-fetched.

It is very difficult for me come out and say "yes, there is a significant risk, do not do this or do this, mainly because we do not manufacturer the components and we certainly cannot take a risk with a potential safety issue; lawsuits in that regard can get extremely risky.

The best we can do is test the components on our own car to our best ability and report back on our own experiences and share that as an additional information. Ultimately, we all individually come to conclusions and make our own decisions. I wish I could offer more than that.

Originally Posted by rjhang

Hmm, I don't think my bar installation involved any greasing... I was at the garage watching the actual install. Where are the right / wrong places to grease?

Normally, we would not grease the inside of the bushing but the outside, and very little. I know that we put way more grease than we should have on our Cusco rear A/R bar both inside and outside, but I did not mind it that much. And we still do not have any issues, so the greasing is certainly not THE issue causing or preventing anything, it is just another detail, in my opinion.

Also, I am sure many of you have already read Adam's (Z1 Performance) post @ NASIOC about his converstations with Cusco. Their answer was in-line with what I was expecting, but always take it with a grain of salt.

I personally spoke with Cobb and they ran some tests early this week, and they responded with:

About the sway bars. I did a little research on our STi and Forester XT. The side to side movement is not a problem. The bends and the thickness of the bar limit the amount of movement it can do. It looks like there is the possibility of the bar switching around when it is at the hardest setting. I do not see it as being a problem on the softest and middle settings. The condition can happen with ANY adjustable sway bar that uses multiple holes. It can also be easily solved with an adjustable length endlink which we have already been working on. I do not advise that the hardest setting be used until we have the adjustable endlinks on the 2004 STi and Forester XT. The standard WRX uses a different endlink and rear control arm, so the condition does not exist on those cars.

That is their perspective and I cannot disagree but we'll take their opinion. Our own decision at this time is to follow Cobb's recommendation and move to the middle hole on the A/R Bar and not utilize the third (hardest) one until we receive end-links from Cobb. i will certainly let everyone know once we receive them.

I also would like to add that I am very encouraged with all these open discussion delving into the details collectively. This is power of Internet that we never had the ability to share at this level. I personally thank everyone who share their experiences and thoughts, it only helps; thank you.

[FT@SGP]

All Cusco dealers in the US have finally received Cusco's answer with proper installation photos. Someone already posted the e-mail at the NASIOC thread, so please take a look at that thread about Cusco's answers and some of the reaction.

[staticx313]

Also, I was wondering... theres too much up there for me to read right now, but would having a front sway bar increase rigidity throughout the car taking some stress off the rear vs having a REAR only sway bar... im just trying to figure out why im not having problems and other are. Someone pointed that out and so I thought i'd ask.

Robert~

[FT@SGP]

Originally Posted by staticx313

Also, I was wondering... theres too much up there for me to read right now, but would having a front sway bar increase rigidity throughout the car taking some stress off the rear vs having a REAR only sway bar... im just trying to figure out why im not having problems and other are. Someone pointed that out and so I thought i'd ask.

Robert~

The effect of the front bar to the rear roll couple is there but it is relatively small and is dependent on chassis rigidity. That coupled with your Eibach springs may be making a difference however.

We are not having the problem either, but I have not checked after our last crash. I will be going to the body shop tomorrow to take pictures, hopefully they will let me. I believe the number of incidents of this happening is still small and but enough to warrant paying close attention. One thing to remember is that the end-links are not designed in any car to keep the bar moving laterally and as we have seen from the NASIOC thread, if they are too strong then they transfer the stress over to the trailing link and brake that bracket. Poltec might have the right design and the adjustability of the end-links seems like would solve the problem, not necessarily a stronger one. We are also in the process of obtain adjustable end-links from Hotchkis, we should have the deal singed very soon.

[edykh]

So anyone find out why it cause the problem? My front and rear cusco sway bar come in soon, so should l put the front first or both? Or wait until someone find a way to solve the problem first?

[STIml8n]

I'd put them on, make sure you follw the directions and make sure to check on them regularly. It not a common occurence, it seems to be more like a 1 in 250 type thing...