[stretch]

Originally Posted by twiSTies

I don't get the rush to buy coilovers for a daily driver that'll only see mountain passes. Ohlins FPS would be more than enough for that light duty with no wait times or potential for the typical coilover noises, rebuilds, maintenance, etc. They're overkill for this end user. I'm shocked Myles would go this direction for this customer.

Quite simply, coilovers work better on a lowered car than a fixed perch strut. Even if a coilover is overkill, it's still the better tool for the job even if comfort is the priority. If it's not the priority, then the OP has the flexibility to with coilovers to change the setup easily. There is no reason a coilover should be considered more extreme than a strut. Most are by design, but they need not be designed that way.

Besides, what noises/repairs are you worried about? No good coilover makes noises. You get a lifetime warranty, and the TiC's aren't inverted struts like the Ohlins- there's no "stiction" issues to develop. Either setup could be the last suspension the OP ever buys.

If I understand how the TiC SST coilovers are stocked nowadays, the wait won't be long.

[twiSTies]

Originally Posted by stretch

Quite simply, coilovers work better on a lowered car than a fixed perch strut. Even if a coilover is overkill, it's still the better tool for the job even if comfort is the priority. If it's not the priority, then the OP has the flexibility to with coilovers to change the setup easily. There is no reason a coilover should be considered more extreme than a strut. Most are by design, but they need not be designed that way.

Besides, what noises/repairs are you worried about? No good coilover makes noises. You get a lifetime warranty, and the TiC's aren't inverted struts like the Ohlins- there's no "stiction" issues to develop. Either setup could be the last suspension the OP ever buys.

If I understand how the TiC SST coilovers are stocked nowadays, the wait won't be long.

Coilovers will require rebuilds and maintenance over their lifetime while a Ohlins fixed perch does not. Even the Euro-valved brands. They are more susceptible to rust and contaminants than a spring and strut combo as well, requiring you to clean them up and grease them to prevent rust in the threads. You also have to set the proper ride height, and in the case for some coilovers, get the parts torqued down correctly with a strap wrench, etc. so that they don't clunk or make popping noises.

KW V3 rears made noises for awhile there, Ohlins Flags make noises from stiction and NVH is always more prevalent with a plate vs. rubber tophat. Let's also not forget the humorous, "Why do my new coilovers make a PSSSHHHT sound over bumps?" If coilovers were as transperant a mod as you make them sound, OEMs would use them.

[JPWEraser]

I appreciate all of the input, seriously. While my STi's duty is fairly tame now, I feel that it will change in time. Right now, I work 55+ hours a week at AT&T, am a full time student, and on my days off I detail cars. As far as spare time goes... I don't have much right now. When things change for me (read: graduate), I think that I will get something more civilized for DD duties and convert my STi to a weekend car and try to hit the track more (NOT the drag strip). If I can circumvent spending money twice on the same mod, I think it is wise to do so. Would it be a sin to buy something like the ASTs that will remain on 80% street duty for another ~18 months knowing that it will change after? I don't want more stock struts because I know they'll fail again just as quickly (or maybe even quicker) with anything but the stock springs on them. So, I am faced with this decision. I can spend a good 3-4k on a NEW Ohlins setup that I would absolutely be happy with now for sure, but I may be unhappy with in the future when things change, OR I can spend around the same money, probably less on a set of coilovers that has been touted highly for its daily driveabilty in nearly every review thread and rest more assuredly that I have a smaller chance of having to rebuy the same mod later down the road.

Under the same circumstances... say I had a turbo failure. I would not buy another VF39. I would take the opportunity to get closer to my overall goal and buy an upgraded unit. I make good money doing what I do, and I love spending it on my STi, but I feel it's pretty ignorant to spend money twice on the same thing. I'm not bashing anything that anyone has said here in the least. More or less, with this post, I am asking whether or not I am being retarded and overthinking this?

[stretch]

Originally Posted by twiSTies

Coilovers will require rebuilds and maintenance over their lifetime while a Ohlins fixed perch does not.

Sorry, this is wrong. There is nothing that physically differentiates the damper in a coilover damper and a fixed perch strut. In the case of Zzyzx or Ground Control coilovers, they even use the same part for the dampers as what goes into fixed perch struts. So, where's the logic in claiming one will need rebuilds and the other won't? The damper doesn't care what size or style spring is attached to it so long as it's made to handle the spring rate.

The Ohlins' stiction issues existed on the coilover AND the fixed perch strut, so that's not an argument in your favor! I don't know the cause of the KW noise, but obviously the fix wasn't to make the KW's a non-coilover, so that wasn't the cause. The "PSSSH" noise happens in all dampers, not just coilovers, since it's the sound of oil flowing through a valve. OE's don't use height-adjustable coilovers because OE's don't want to offer folks ride height adjustability; it's really that simple. (Although in the strict sense of the word, "coilover" just means spring over damper, which we do have stock.)

Most unwanted noises associated with good coilovers come from the camber plate, not the coilover, and can happen on a stock setup with camber plates. Don't confuse the two simply because they're often used together. OE strut tops are much better designs than most camber plates, but you can use them with coilovers if you like. Heck, with the AST's, you have more incentive to keep them since they alleviate the need for camber plates. (You can get about twice as much negative camber if desired on just the stock bolt.)

[twiSTies]

Originally Posted by JPWEraser

I appreciate all of the input, seriously. While my STi's duty is fairly tame now, I feel that it will change in time. Right now, I work 55+ hours a week at AT&T, am a full time student, and on my days off I detail cars. As far as spare time goes... I don't have much right now. When things change for me (read: graduate), I think that I will get something more civilized for DD duties and convert my STi to a weekend car and try to hit the track more (NOT the drag strip). If I can circumvent spending money twice on the same mod, I think it is wise to do so. Would it be a sin to buy something like the ASTs that will remain on 80% street duty for another ~18 months knowing that it will change after? I don't want more stock struts because I know they'll fail again just as quickly (or maybe even quicker) with anything but the stock springs on them. So, I am faced with this decision. I can spend a good 3-4k on a NEW Ohlins setup that I would absolutely be happy with now for sure, but I may be unhappy with in the future when things change, OR I can spend around the same money, probably less on a set of coilovers that has been touted highly for its daily driveabilty in nearly every review thread and rest more assuredly that I have a smaller chance of having to rebuy the same mod later down the road.

Under the same circumstances... say I had a turbo failure. I would not buy another VF39. I would take the opportunity to get closer to my overall goal and buy an upgraded unit. I make good money doing what I do, and I love spending it on my STi, but I feel it's pretty ignorant to spend money twice on the same thing. I'm not bashing anything that anyone has said here in the least. More or less, with this post, I am asking whether or not I am being retarded and overthinking this?

you are overthinking it, and you are also selling the Ohlins short by putting them in the same breath as the stock junk our cars come with. just saying...

[twiSTies]

Originally Posted by stretch

Sorry, this is wrong. There is nothing that physically differentiates the damper in a coilover damper and a fixed perch strut. In the case of Zzyzx or Ground Control coilovers, they even use the same part for the dampers as what goes into fixed perch struts. So, where's the logic in claiming one will need rebuilds and the other won't? The damper doesn't care what size or style spring is attached to it so long as it's made to handle the spring rate.

The logic is pretty simple on this. There are rebuild "schedules" for many coilovers out there that are within 3-4 years of moderate use, and even shorter than that under competition use. Meanwhile, the Ohlins fixed perch has none. As in, no rebuilds needed. There are T2's being refreshed and rebuilt in Germany right now after a few months of use and fullerton had his Flags redone for sale just to be 100% they're in new condition. There are countless rebuilt coilovers out there for different valving as well since coilovers are best intended for the race track, not just for a daily driver. (Why does a daily driver need camber and valving adjustments if they are already 65-70% critically damped?) OVERKILL.

The Ohlins' stiction issues existed on the coilover AND the fixed perch strut, so that's not an argument in your favor!

The fixed perch strut doesn't clunk, stretch. The Flags have.

I don't know the cause of the KW noise, but obviously the fix wasn't to make the KW's a non-coilover, so that wasn't the cause.

It was the internals of the damper and were later fixed.

The "PSSSH" noise happens in all dampers, not just coilovers, since it's the sound of oil flowing through a valve.

Really? My stock struts and the Ohlins are pretty darn quiet.

OE's don't use height-adjustable coilovers because OE's don't want to offer folks ride height adjustability; it's really that simple. (Although in the strict sense of the word, "coilover" just means spring over damper, which we do have stock.)

I was waiting for the dictionary to come out, yes we technically all have coilovers from the factory since the coil is over the damper. now back to our car enthusiast vernacular. OE's do use height adjustable options, but they don't use threaded shocks. Ever wonder why? Refer to my last response.

Most unwanted noises associated with good coilovers come from the camber plate, not the coilover, and can happen on a stock setup with camber plates. Don't confuse the two simply because they're often used together.

I like how you keep saying good coilovers. Externally, which is where most of the wear and tear on a coilover occurs, it really doesn't matter. You have painted mild steel, I have painted mild steel. Get something with INOX on it then we can discuss good vs. "bad" coilovers and their response to chemistry. Anyway, back to your point. Coilovers are run with camber plates because people who buy them use them to race. Just because they don't always come with them, doesn't mean the noise associated with them can be written off. Someone opting for Sportlines isn't going to replace the plates with rubber mounts.

OE strut tops are much better designs than most camber plates

Excuse me, what? Define better. They hurt steering response, deflect under load, and contribute to bobble head, and don't contribute positively to alignment. In what way are they better? They're quieter, but so is the stock downpipe.

, but you can use them with coilovers if you like. Heck, with the AST's, you have more incentive to keep them since they alleviate the need for camber plates. (You can get about twice as much negative camber if desired on just the stock bolt.)

-2.2 is not what I call good front negative camber for an STi.

[stretch]

How am I supposed to respond to that? You think Ohlins deliberately uses a worse damper design in products labeled "coilover" instead of "strut"? Find me in the Ohlins rebuild manual where it shows to use lesser quality parts when building coilovers versus struts. If Ohlins doesn't advertise a rebuild schedule for struts, it's because they are making assumptions about the user's standards. Do you honestly think they last forever? OE struts from all makes don't have rebuild schedules but they obviously wear out (often quickly).

The rest of your arguments are out of context- OE strut tops are better designs due to their reliability (hence not developing noise, the context of the conversation) and -2.2 degrees of camber is a lot more than -1, which is great relative to the struts being discussed. Of course camber plates allow you to be more aggressive, but nobody was debating that. The OP would probably enjoy in the -1.5 to -2 degree range.

I'm not sure why you have such an attitude towards me. Maybe it's just an adversity to coilovers because you had a bad experience? I'm sure once you get your RCE/Vorshlag parts, you'll see how reliable and quiet good parts can be.

[ooWRX_STioo]

I know this post comes a little late, but ill have my setup installed on my 04 STi hopefully within the next two weeks. I spoke to Myles and ordered some Ohlins FPS and RCE Blacks. I will let you know how everything goes and my first impressions on the different feel. I hope everything goes well.

[JPWEraser]

Originally Posted by ooWRX_STioo

I know this post comes a little late, but ill have my setup installed on my 04 STi hopefully within the next two weeks. I spoke to Myles and ordered some Ohlins FPS and RCE Blacks. I will let you know how everything goes and my first impressions on the different feel. I hope everything goes well.

Thanks man, I would really appreciate the input. I found some take-off rear struts that have my problem fixed for a little while. I have been patiently waiting on TiC to get some ASTs in stock since I posted this - a lesson in futility so far. I am anxious to hear your feedback on the FPS/RCE setup. Good luck with everything and keep me posted!