[williaty]

I'm ahead of you again! Thanks to my trip to TiC today, I now am 1) possessor of fender braces and 2) done with my suspension.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by williaty

I'm ahead of you again! Thanks to my trip to TiC today, I now am 1) possessor of fender braces and 2) done with my suspension.

1) already got 'em.
2) we'll see after this weekend. If I like the 27mm now, I'm done.

[williaty]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

1) already got 'em.
2) we'll see after this weekend. If I like the 27mm now, I'm done.

When did you do fender braces?

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by williaty

When did you do fender braces?

'07s come with tubular braces from the factory.

[williaty]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

'07s come with tubular braces from the factory.

Yeah well at least my engine won't grenade

[Icculus]

Originally Posted by williaty

Yeah well at least my engine won't grenade

Hey I take offense to that (quickly finds a piece of wood to knock on--please don't blow up, please don't blow up)

Anyway, Draco I've been following this thread and really like your setup. I was hoping you could comment on the following quote from the suspensions buyers guide sticky

Originally Posted by twiSTies

Camber Plates:

...RCE offers two flavors, a non-lowering version and a lowering version of their plates. The lowering version is intended for the JDM Pinks and coilovers. Running the lowering version on a spring like the RCE, Cobbs, or Swifts will result in messing up the front a arm geometry much like if you ran S Techs...

Now in the sticky everywhere the RCE springs are mentioned it just says springs and doesn't specify yellow or black so he very well may be talking about the yellows. Anyway I'm currently looking at running a similar setup to yours and just wanted to get some more of your thoughts on the subject. If I'm reading your posts correctly the RCA's would combat the problem twiSTies is describing right or I'm I off in left field?

One last question for the guru's. Would running these lowering camber plates with blacks on stock struts be a completely ludicrous idea until Ohlin's could be acquired? Since I know it may be pertinent to my question for all the spring rate voodoo magic mathematics I would be running RCE swaybars.

Thanks

[williaty]

Originally Posted by Icculus

Now in the sticky every where the RCE springs are mentioned it just says springs and doesn't specify yellow or black so he very well may be talking about the yellows.

Generally, yes. At the time many of the FAQs were written, the only RCE springs were the V1 Yellows.

If I'm reading your posts correctly would the RCA's would combat the problem twiSTies is describing right?

Sort of. Ish. The problem twisties is alluding to is that as you lower the car via anything to do with the spring/strut/top, the angle of the lower control arm becomes closer and closer to horizontal (the changing angle of the lower control arms is why the roll center drops when you lower the car). Which isn't really a good thing. However, it actively becomes a BAD thing once the control arm drops below horizontal (the point at which the roll center moves underground). So what you really need to watch out far is how much has the total system of your spring, strut (or coilover) and strut mount (or camber plate) changed the ride height of the car. If the ride height as measured from the center of the hub straight up to the metal in of the fender drops to less than 14" in the front or 13.5" in the rear, you're in a place where you need to take corrective action. You need to get the roll center back above ground either by raising the car (which raises the roll center), or changing the suspension geomtery to rais the roll center. The Whiteline RCAs and the 6Gun balljoint extenders push the outboard end of the lower control arm down, raising the roll center and offsetting some of the change from lowering. However, the amount of "correction" is directly related to the amount the outboard end of the LCA is pushed down. In the case of the Whitelines, that's only 10mm.

One last question for the guru's. Would running these camber plates with blacks on stock struts be a completely ludicrous idea until Ohlin's could be acquired? Since I know it may be pertinent to my question for all the spring rate black magic mathematics I would be running RCE swaybars.

The camber plates have no bearing on running the stock struts or not, so we can remove those from the question. However, both the springs and sways DO matter. I'm sure there are going to be some people who will tell you that you can do it. People get away with doing just about everything. However, due to the increase of the main spring rate going to Blacks, you'd be meaningfully underdamped in all suspension modes. The ride wouldn't be great (though I can see it possibly being better than stock...) and the handling wouldn't be as good as it could be. Sadly, adding the stiffer sways to the equation makes it worse as your total wheel rate in roll and warp will mean you'll be BADLY underdamped in those two modes.

I'm a BIG proponent of not chaning springs unless you can change dampers too. If money is an issue, I would encourage you to do either just the camber plates now and save for springs+struts later, or do just the springs+struts now and save for the plates later.

[Icculus]

Originally Posted by williaty

.

I'm a BIG proponent of not chaning springs unless you can change dampers too. If money is an issue, I would encourage you to do either just the camber plates now and save for springs+struts later, or do just the springs+struts now and save for the plates later.

Thanks so much for all the added info. As for your final statement you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Money. I've have a line on some used lowering plates and was trying to see if it was feasible to side step the struts for now until they could be purchased. Truth be told if I could swing the Ohlin's now I probably wouldn't even be looking into the lowering plates as I'd going with T2 or TiC coilovers. The stance of Draco's car is sexy though. Argh...too many choices

Thanks again

EDIT:

Originally Posted by williaty

The Whiteline RCAs and the 6Gun balljoint extenders push the outboard end of the lower control arm down, raising the roll center and offsetting some of the change from lowering. However, the amount of "correction" is directly related to the amount the outboard end of the LCA is pushed down. In the case of the Whitelines, that's only 10mm.

And again maybe I'm over simplifying but just trying to figure this out. If the blacks drop 15mm in the front and the lowering plates drop another ~9.5 mm that drops the front roll center down 25 mm. Then by adding say the whileline rca's you lower the end of the lca 10mm effectively raising the rc back up 10 mm leaving the front rc down 15 mm overall.

And since its a mostly a daily driver maybe I should also be looking at the RCE tarmac zero's. I just haven't read any real reviews of them.

[williaty]

Originally Posted by Icculus

And again maybe I'm over simplifying but just trying to figure this out. If the blacks drop 15mm in the front and the lowering plates drop another ~9.5 mm that drops the front roll center down 25 mm. Then by adding say the whileline rca's you lower the end of the lca 10mm effectively raising the rc back up 10 mm leaving the front rc down 15 mm overall.

Yeah, basically, the only thing not quite right is that the center of roll moves faster than the change in ride height. Exactly how much faster depends on the actual ride height, but 2.5x is a good approximation.

[williaty]

You know, I actually hadn't seen the Tarmac Zeros before. Now why won't a vendor come out with a fixed-height, adjustable damping setup of top quality?

[Draco-REX]

Sheesh. I find someone's asked a question in my thread and Williaty answers before I even realize it.

He covered everything pretty well.

RCAs are a good idea for any drop. The whitelines will take 1 inch off the roll couple while the 6Guns will take nearly three off. ALso, putting the usspension back into the sweet spot of the camber curve is very good. I took the STI to an autocross this past weekend. THe handling was superb. And though the RCAs made the 27mm feel like less of an issue, I've decided I'm going down to a 24mm front bar.

[Icculus]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Sheesh. I find someone's asked a question in my thread and Williaty answers before I even realize it.

You gotta hustle casue williaty is johnny on the spot. I was just trying to get more info/feedback on the lowering camber plates w/ blacks combo. Not sure specifically what I was looking for since you've already provided a wealth of info on your experiences with the combo; I was just digging for a little more.

Just too many good choices. Depending on the day I lean toward your setup, RCE T2's with the lower spring rate or the TiC co's and can never make up my mind

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Icculus

You gotta hustle casue williaty is johnny on the spot. I was just trying to get more info/feedback on the lowering camber plates w/ blacks combo. Not sure specifically what I was looking for since you've already provided a wealth of info on your experiences with the combo; I was just digging for a little more.

Just too many good choices. Depending on the day I lean toward your setup, RCE T2's with the lower spring rate or the TiC co's and can never make up my mind

If I were to do this all over again, I'd go with the TiC SST coilovers. The Ohlins FPS and Blacks are a great combo, don't get me wrong. But I think I'd like the extra adjustability that the COs would have. The reason why I didn't get the SSTs was because they weren't really available when I ordered my parts.

[Draco-REX]

I've added some observations to the section on struts, dated today, after spending a week with them set at 6F/5R.

[STidriver12]

I am agree with you that rear swaybar is best mod to us.

an while ago when i was in highschool, my auto system teacher name Van Bladel, he used have a bugeye wrx and got its whiteline swaybar so he gave me his oem wrx rearbar for my 2007 2.5i.

so i installed the wrx rear bar. its muchhh thicker than my rear bar, like 3 or 4 time thicker.
after installed it, i took it test drive.

i was all shock and only one of that mod does improve my handle alot!
i can feel feedback with my car on twistes

also i have other mod is sti front strut tower. thanks to Ben(fullerton)