[antonch]

I have a dead stock suspension setup. When I first started driving the car I was under the impression that it was setup for understeer (I could literally "steer" the car with the gas pedal ala FWD cars). Now as I got used to it, it seems pretty neutral. Was it the way I was driving it or was it setup just to do that?

[stretch]

IMO, 2005 and 2004 were a pretty neutral under throttle. All 2004-2007 have heavy understeer on corner entry that, once started, is hard to recover from. The car feels pretty decent in day-to-day driving, though.

That said, if you think your car feels neutral, more power to you! A stock car is definately set up for very late apexes: very slow in, fast out. I don't think a stock STI is very good at speed maintenance through corners.

[BBKG79]

Originally Posted by stretch

IMO, 2005 and 2004 were a pretty neutral under throttle. All 2004-2007 have heavy understeer on corner entry that, once started, is hard to recover from. The car feels pretty decent in day-to-day driving, though.

That said, if you think your car feels neutral, more power to you! A stock car is definately set up for very late apexes: very slow in, fast out. I don't think a stock STI is very good at speed maintenance through corners.

With my limited knowledge I agree with you completely. Now in terms of autocross, it seems the boost doesn't build fast enough to accelerate out what's a good way to combat that? Downshift (to me looses time)? Find a happy medium between 2k rpm and higher when slowing down then speeding up, it seems to me at least with my car once the rpms drop past 2k the cars is dead?

[chaos311clarity]

in my experience, you can "dial out" understeer with the way you drive... if you enter a corner casually... the car will most likely understeer a bit... but if you give it a harder flick.. or throw it into a corner.. it will feel more neutral

[EROCK11]

Originally Posted by BBKG79

With my limited knowledge I agree with you completely. Now in terms of autocross, it seems the boost doesn't build fast enough to accelerate out what's a good way to combat that? Downshift (to me looses time)? Find a happy medium between 2k rpm and higher when slowing down then speeding up, it seems to me at least with my car once the rpms drop past 2k the cars is dead?

Left foot braking is a great technique to keep the rpms up for a quicker corner exit. Don't try it out for the first time at an autox though, it requires some practice.

[BBKG79]

Originally Posted by EROCK11

Left foot braking is a great technique to keep the rpms up for a quicker corner exit. Don't try it out for the first time at an autox though, it requires some practice.

Thanks will do!

[stretch]

Originally Posted by EROCK11

Left foot braking is a great technique to keep the rpms up for a quicker corner exit. Don't try it out for the first time at an autox though, it requires some practice.

On the contrary, I'd say to practice it at an autocross- otherwise where can you? That's what autocross is for: learning car control and driving techniques.

[Mykl]

It depends on how you drive the car. On throttle I've found my '04 to be on the oversteery side, all the way up to fourth gear.

Pre apex I've found that the car will understeer in the worst way possible if and *only* if you try to turn the car while braking. If you brake in a straight line and get your foot off the brake before you turn the wheel, understeer isn't an issue.

That is annoying because it forces you to drive the car a certain way; very late apex. But, this is also the fastest way to get the car around a track. It's a relatively heavy sedan that doesn't come with the best of suspensions, but is world class at putting power down in traction challenged situations. Which means you can get deep into the throttle a lot earlier than most cars.

This is an analysis of a 100% stock car.

[RyanLee]

Originally Posted by EROCK11

Left foot braking is a great technique to keep the rpms up for a quicker corner exit. Don't try it out for the first time at an autox though, it requires some practice.

I do not recommend left foot braking. It is very dangerous for beginners.
Learn "Heel and Toe." It would be better than left foot braking.

[antonch]

After doing more searching. I found a thread that suggested that understeer is caused by the front LSD, which seems to be pretty consistent with the behavior--line gets really wide even when tires are not being pushed to the limit.
I definetly need more time getting used to this. Yesterday I was going through a corner pretty quick, lifted to shift and the nose turned in.
Thinking there are two effects here, car has a natural slight understeer, the front lsd makes it seem even worse when you apply throttle.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by Mykl

Pre apex I've found that the car will understeer in the worst way possible if and *only* if you try to turn the car while braking. If you brake in a straight line and get your foot off the brake before you turn the wheel, understeer isn't an issue.

I noticed something different when I was autocrossing my car in stock form.

No matter how you approach the corner, if you slow down enough for it, then understeer won't be such a problem. You can do this by braking straight and then turning in like you said. Or you can do it by trail braking. Trail braking can eliminate the understeer problem as well assuming you've slowed down enough before the turn-in. In other words, trail braking works, it's just harder to do properly as it requires more precision.

With either approach the car will be fastest if you set yourself up to get on the throttle before the apex. And that's something that's going to be hard to do if you go plowing into corners too fast.

[E-Rock]

Originally Posted by antonch

\
I definetly need more time getting used to this. Yesterday I was going through a corner pretty quick, lifted to shift and the nose turned in.
\

This is really a natural reaction from any car during a turn. It's called throttle-lift oversteer. If you are in a turn and you are applying some throttle the weight is slightly pushed backwards and the rear wheels with more normal force on them from the increased weight transfer have more grip. When you lift the throttle, you transfer weight to the front therefore giving the rear wheels less grip while giving the front wheels (the ones doing the turning) more grip. If you are close the limit this will give you a sense of oversteer and the nose will turn in.


That being said the stock STI definitely has a slight tendency to understeer, especially under throttle.

[SWortham]

Originally Posted by E-Rock

That being said the stock STI definitely has a slight tendency to understeer, especially under throttle.

It has a tendency to understeer, sure. I don't know about that "especially under throttle" statement.

The car has handling characteristic of both a FWD and a RWD car. If you're just under the limit you'll notice how lifting the throttle tucks the nose in, and pushing down on the throttle makes the car push wide. In this way it behaves just like my FWD Hyundai did. But if you push it hard enough the car will oversteer under throttle like a RWD car.

And often times to be fastest in the stock car you'll have to take it easy on corner entry and really get on it for corner exits. Assuming you're in a safe environment (like an autox course) you can try getting on the gas very early, aim for the apex cone, and trust the car's ability to pull you out of corners.

[E-Rock]

Sorry I should've clarified. I meant constant throttle. The STI will oversteer if pushed.

[upncummr]

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