[polyol]

Originally Posted by hard ride

So yu have 6 deg castor just with the plates? I have an ALK, is there any way to get more castor without using plates?

I have a alk too...that is why I get so much caster...along with plates

[polyol]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

That much toe out can hurt you under braking pretty bad and even worst if you are trail braking a lot. The other thing is that these cars are very stiff wheel rate wise IMO and that turn in transient is very short for your inside wheel to help a lot. That outer wheel is going to be more of a player during turning and with that toe out it could hurt you.

I am really curious how this is going to work out for you because I always hated toe on my cars. I like to play with other things like ARB's and pressures before messing with toe. That is one tricky SOB.

Understand that I rarely get above 60mph on the autox tracks im on. They are very tight and constantly transitioning.

I agree...this is an experiment. I will find out really fast if this is benificial or not. If I dont like it I will change back to -1.2 in a hurry (or so). Granted I would take 1st with -1.5 degrees of camber last year.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

That much toe out can hurt you under braking pretty bad and even worst if you are trail braking a lot. The other thing is that these cars are very stiff wheel rate wise IMO and that turn in transient is very short for your inside wheel to help a lot. That outer wheel is going to be more of a player during turning and with that toe out it could hurt you.

I am really curious how this is going to work out for you because I always hated toe on my cars. I like to play with other things like ARB's and pressures before messing with toe. That is one tricky SOB.

I like zero tow myself and I love trail braking. Anyone who spends any time in karts loves trail braking in big heavy sedans.........

Myles

[MGizzle]

I started with the Formula SAE car which gave you significant benefits trailbraking. I do less of it on my STi but my toe experimenting has shown me that it can hurt pretty bad when trail braking, especially if you have significant bump steer.

Now, I read in another forum (Stretch posted some graphs I think) how our suspensions have pretty bad bump steer when increasing caster but am not sure if that is true with the ALK's. Hence, you have pretty bad toe out statically and then gain some more with bump travel = like steering in the other direction.

Again, I am not certain this is the case hence why I am so curious about what you are going to experience with that much toe out. Keep us posted.

[polyol]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

Again, I am not certain this is the case hence why I am so curious about what you are going to experience with that much toe out. Keep us posted.

First autox was this weekend. Car ran good and handled well with the 1/4 degree of toe out. Got 1st in SM and 2nd best time in our grouping and probably top 5-10 of the day out of around 200 entrys. TTOD was 42.1 (or so) seconds and I got a 42.8. Average times were probably just under 50 seconds.

The toe out really helped initial turn in and did not feel at all unstable at all. Again, this was a really tight course and I never got out of 2nd gear. Oh dont forget that when I slam the plates at the track I loose caster. So the 6+ degrees of caster I get on the street probably truns into 5-5.5 at the track.

One bummer I have is that I still dog-leg around corners. I could feel it and it was confired by spectators on the side...said I was lifting 3" or so. What im going to do is to set my rear sway bar to the softest setting...right now I am in the middle. Doubt that will cure it...if that doesnt do it I may unhook the x-brace at the strut towers and see if that helps. If it does I may just unhook and re-hook for the street...but I may just sell the dang thing.

[MGizzle]

Good stuff man. Make sure you hollar at me if you are thinking of selling that X brace

That did sound like a very slow set up if you just drove in one gear. However, those can be fun. I can see how that toe helped you in this case since you probably never went over 45mph (forgot what the second gear limit was.. 45 or 55??).

However, you must have some crazy sticky tires if you are dog legging like that and I have seen it before too on STi's with slicks. If I was you I would try stiffening the interior by using a harness bar or a roll cage that mounts to your B pillar seat belt points. This is the weakest point of the car in torsion IMO and any stiffening here will help you keep that tire down more.

Finally, are you rocking any coilovers or aftermarket springs?? If so, make sure your springs are not unloading in droop because this could cause the dog legging as well.

[polyol]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

Good stuff man. Make sure you hollar at me if you are thinking of selling that X brace

That did sound like a very slow set up if you just drove in one gear. However, those can be fun. I can see how that toe helped you in this case since you probably never went over 45mph (forgot what the second gear limit was.. 45 or 55??).

However, you must have some crazy sticky tires if you are dog legging like that and I have seen it before too on STi's with slicks. If I was you I would try stiffening the interior by using a harness bar or a roll cage that mounts to your B pillar seat belt points. This is the weakest point of the car in torsion IMO and any stiffening here will help you keep that tire down more.

Finally, are you rocking any coilovers or aftermarket springs?? If so, make sure your springs are not unloading in droop because this could cause the dog legging as well.

2nd gear ends around 55 but with my 275 slicks on I probably bounce off the limiter at 60 or so. I am on coilovers and the perches are up were they pre-load the springs...so no way they are drooping.

[MGizzle]

Do you have helper springs?? How can you rotate that much without lifting the front inside tire as well?? To me that sounds like it is all chassis flex. Now, your spring coming off the perch would result in a huge moment but if you have it preloaded that at full dropp you are still engaged (which you can check by lifting your rear until you reach full droop) then it is defenately chassis flex. Like stated above, you got to stiffen up the middle of your chassis since the front is very stiff and with your X brace the rear is too (which makes sense why the X brace would cause more wheel lifting).

See if you can find somebody that is willing to borrow you a sparco brace for an experiment. If you were any where near here I would let you have mine and try it out.

Then again, 275 slicks.... holly dudu man!!!! What rims you runing?

[hard ride]

I'd like to see some pics of an Sti with 275 tyres, please.

[polyol]

Pictures suck but oh-well

[MGizzle]

Dang dude, for some reason those don't come out as much as I thought. What did you have to do to fit them in?

[polyol]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

What did you have to do to fit them in?

Oh man...a lot! lol...

I have to run spacers...5mm in the front (granted I think i could get away with 3mm) and 8mm in the rear with fender rolling. Thats along with alot of positive camber at the ecentric bolts. I correct for the postive camber at the bolt with negative camber at the plates.

It was a lot easier with the stock suspension (I now run coilovers). I only had to run 5mm spacers in the rear (and fender rolling) and nothing in the front. The rear is the real challange quite frankly. I have major clearance issues at the strut in the rear. I couldnt run camber plates in the rear due to a bunch of fittment issues. That is an entirely new thread though...if you search you could find it.

Most people think you cant run giant tires on 8" tims...but thats not true. Granted 9-10" rims would obviously be better but you have to run what you have in your budget.

[ButtDyno]

Originally Posted by polyol

I had my plates set dead center (between 0 and full negative) and had about -1.0 degrees both sides. When I slamed the plates it took it to -2.3 degrees and induced a 1/4 degree of toe out. Oh BTW I have 6.2 degrees caster

Originally Posted by polyol

I would agree...however, as you know, I am also playing a clearance game with the 710's. I do have pretty good clearance in the front...better than the rears. I may dial in a tad more camber...that is...if I dont eat into my clearance. Oh I have a question about that. Will toe chance if I dial in more camber at the bolt? I dont see how it can with the geometry as is...but that doesnt mean that it cant.

Ride height is higher than I would like...but there is not much I can do about that. The adjusters and coils are the clearance issue at all four corners...and as a result I need them up as high as possible.

Originally Posted by polyol

I have the plates right in the middle between full negative and 0...literally dead center.

I'm confused..

Are the plates set for max negative camber or not? (when they are at -2.3)

[polyol]

Originally Posted by ButtDyno

I'm confused..

Are the plates set for max negative camber or not? (when they are at -2.3)

They are set right in the middle...between full negative and 0. I slam them at the track to induce max negative camber. Make sense? It can be confusing...I confuse myself sometimes on my setup. lol

Oh...-2.3 was my old setting. After that post I adjusted @ the camber bolt for another -.5 degrees...so now im at -2.8 front with the plates slammed to full negative....

[ButtDyno]

OK - rephrased:

When the plates are slammed for max negative camber, the amount of negative camber you get is -2.3?