[Rallyon]

What do you think of this suspension setup. I plan to autocross over summer a good amount but also daily drive this car. So hows this look, I dont plan on going nuts with this, just improvements. What you think, any suggestions?

RCE Black Springs
Group-N Top Mounts (Front/Rear)
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway Bar
Kartboy Rear Endlinks

[CGMDan]

Looks good.
If your going to AutoX you might want to get camber plates up front. And if you've got the money to spend I'd add in the Carlab X-Brace.

Go to Welcome to Racecomp Engineering.com . I think you'll find everything your after in a package deal already

[Sti loves to Ax]

Read the SCCA rulebook before you make any changes. Decide what class you want to run in. The rear sway will put you in STU. The X Brace as suggested above will put you in SM iirc.

[Rallyon]

Originally Posted by Sti loves to Ax

Read the SCCA rulebook before you make any changes. Decide what class you want to run in. The rear sway will put you in STU. The X Brace as suggested above will put you in SM iirc.

I usually just do it with a local car club. Its mainly just to improve driving skill.

btw, if I get rce yellows on the stock struts is there anything i should worry about? I like the drop more but will it effect performance?

[sciolist]

Originally Posted by Sti loves to Ax

Read the SCCA rulebook before you make any changes. Decide what class you want to run in. The rear sway will put you in STU. The X Brace as suggested above will put you in SM iirc.

There is no allowance in SM for lateral SFC's. SM SFC rules are the same as SP SFC rules.

Minus the brace, this car would be in either STU or BSP, depending on tires. Either way, camber plates would be better than hardened tops in front. On race tires, you'd lose more than the cost of camber plates with your first set... to say nothing of the fact that the car would handle like hell.

[Rallyon]

Originally Posted by sciolist

There is no allowance in SM for lateral SFC's. SM SFC rules are the same as SP SFC rules.

Minus the brace, this car would be in either STU or BSP, depending on tires. Either way, camber plates would be better than hardened tops in front. On race tires, you'd lose more than the cost of camber plates with your first set... to say nothing of the fact that the car would handle like hell.

sorry, can you elaborate a little more Sciolist?
Out of these parts...

RCE Black Springs
RCE Camber Plates
Group-N Top Mount (Rear)
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway Bar
Kartboy Rear Endlinks

I can use all of them and be in STU or BSP class? (can someone tell me what class BSP stand for). With the parts I have listed is it worth running in those classes or is it going to be too competitive, b/c aren't most ppl running coilovers in the STU class? I also plan to use street tires, not R compounds.

BTW: I hear good things about RCE camber plates, I believe I'd chose there but would you suggest I get lowering or non-lowering plates with the Blacks on account of the mild drop?

[sciolist]

Link to SCCA Solo rules PDF. You should also buy a hard copy (required for national event registration and also at regional events in some clubs, and supports a good cause): http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo%2...lo_Rules_2.pdf

Correct that all items listed in Post #6 may be used in either STU or BSP.

BSP = B Street Prepared.

With only the modifications listed, in national competition, STU would be like showing up to a gun fight with a machete. BSP would be like showing up to a gun fight with a Bic lighter. That's fine though, you're doing this for car control at the local level. In terms of the actual competition you'll face, you have to see who's running what in your local club. My advice is to forget about that, and run the car the way you want to in terms of fun, cost and the learning experience.

If you don't plan to go to a height-adjustable suspension, then the RCE lowering plates are probably a good idea. If you do, then lowering plates are a moot point. Get plates that allow you to maximize caster while still providing the static camber you need. Hint: an effective suspension allows you to make adequate camber adjustments at the upright.

If you're basically going to stick with the Post #6 hardware, then talk to Myles. If you plan to build a somewhat competitive car, then forget Myles and start doing your own homework now.

[Rallyon]

Originally Posted by sciolist

Link to SCCA Solo rules PDF. You should also buy a hard copy (required for national event registration and also at regional events in some clubs, and supports a good cause): http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo%20Rules/2008_Solo_Rules_2.pdf

Correct that all items listed in Post #6 may be used in either STU or BSP.

BSP = B Street Prepared.

With only the modifications listed, in national competition, STU would be like showing up to a gun fight with a machete. BSP would be like showing up to a gun fight with a Bic lighter. That's fine though, you're doing this for car control at the local level. In terms of the actual competition you'll face, you have to see who's running what in your local club. My advice is to forget about that, and run the car the way you want to in terms of fun, cost and the learning experience.

If you don't plan to go to a height-adjustable suspension, then the RCE lowering plates are probably a good idea. If you do, then lowering plates are a moot point. Get plates that allow you to maximize caster while still providing the static camber you need. Hint: an effective suspension allows you to make adequate camber adjustments at the upright.

If you're basically going to stick with the Post #6 hardware, then talk to Myles. If you plan to build a somewhat competitive car, then forget Myles and start doing your own homework now.

awesome, thanks for the help. Yea, in those cases I'm looking to just have fun and REALLY....REALLY learning how to drive the car.
And no, I am not getting a height adjustable suspension in the future.

Heres the final list:
RCE Black Springs
RCE Lowering Camber Plates
Group-N Top Mount (Rear)
Whiteline 27mm Front Sway Bar
Whiteline 24mm Rear Sway Bar
Kartboy Rear Endlinks

Is there anything else you would recommend? Besides maybe a Brace of some kind.

[sciolist]

Originally Posted by Rallyon

Also, anyone think koni inserts would be smart? The ohlins are a little much imo, and almost an over kill to the parts I have listed IMO. The Koni's would prob. be the last to go on though.

My opinion is that good-quality, adjustable dampers are a big boon for autoX. I have 8611's, and I absolutely love them.

It's worth keeping in mind that autoX brings some relatively unique variables into play. Maybe not conceptually unique, but in some cases things that would be subtle for HPDE's or DD all of a sudden become critical. This is less of an issue in STU than BSP or SM, but either way, you need to be able to fool around with the car and learn. You aren't buying this stuff for bling... you have to be able to make adjustments, take notes, think about what happened and learn from it - over an extended period of time. As in, keep a log book and refer back to it from time to time.

The main reason I started messing with autoX was to learn about the car, and how to make it behave in a sporting context. You just can't do that very well unless the mechanical parts allow you to make the needed adjustments.

My $.02. YMMV.

[cpa]

Sounds good to me, and I'd concur with the camber plates. I'm going to install RCE blacks and WL camber plates in the beginning of March, I have the parts in the garage just need to find the time. I figured at full camber, the WL plates would be pretty height neutral and I'm hoping the RCE blacks don't compromise suspension travel much with the shortened stops.

I already have the WL F/R Sways (29/27 - 22/24/26) and KB rear ELs, installed. I run in either STU or BSP locally, depending on which tire I run. I expect it will be reasonably competitive locally, certain better than stock. With my car I run my UTEC on pass through for STU, then I run it with race maps and race gas in BSP.

If you want another good upgrade and haven't done it yet some good brake pads and fluid are a good investment. Stainless steel lines don't hurt, but personally I wouldn't put them in first if cost is a decision factor.

[SWortham]

When I studied the 2007 rules last year to find out what mods I could and couldn't do, I found that the X-Brace will put you in X-Prepared. I only assume it's the same way this year.

Everything else would be fine in STU. And I agree that if you're prepared to fork over money for front group N mounts you might as well pay a little more and get camber plates. More negative camber is one of the best improvements you could make. The lowering RCE plates would be a fine choice as they increase travel and hardly affect NVH at all. That's what I have.

[Rallyon]

Originally Posted by SWortham

When I studied the 2007 rules last year to find out what mods I could and couldn't do, I found that the X-Brace will put you in X-Prepared. I only assume it's the same way this year.

Everything else would be fine in STU. And I agree that if you're prepared to fork over money for front group N mounts you might as well pay a little more and get camber plates. More negative camber is one of the best improvements you could make. The lowering RCE plates would be a fine choice as they increase travel and hardly affect NVH at all. That's what I have.

would you mind posting some pics of your car with the blacks on?

[SWortham]

Oh, sorry I meant that I have the RCE lowering plates. I'm actually on stock springs though.

For what it's worth the latest pictures of the car are right here...
http://www.iwsti.com/blogs/SWortham/602/

[Rallyon]

what kinda strut options do I have besides ohlins? I dont think I can use konis since I have the 05. I honestly would like the keep the stock ones but someone said once I have the springs the car will still handle pretty badly. Is this true?

[Parker]

your struts will eventually clunk or blow with aftermarket springs...at least from my observations. ohlins i've heard are great struts, I just don't have the coin for them. i'd look into the Bilsteins too.