[na-STi]

I just found out that the labor alone for doing the 04 to 05 hub swap would cost around $700. Add this to the $950 cost for the 6gun kit and it starts to get crazy. I am way too green to do the labor myself. I know they have the option to keep the 5x100 bolt pattern while upgrading the hubs but I really wanted to switch to the 5x114.

How did the 04.5 people justify the cost of this upgrade? I am really getting sick of the pad knockback when I go to the track. I even get knockback on the street.
They say the 05+ bearings only last twice as long as the 04's. Is this true? I've been to 3 track days and I had to replace one of the front bearings already (under warranty). I'm not sure how much it would have cost me to replace the bearings outside the warranty but would doing this upgrade pay for itself quickly?

[Splash]

Well, you partially listed some of the justifications. The bigger bearings do last longer (I've read up to 4x longer), knockback is reduced, and there is a MUCH better wheel selection in 5x114 than 5x100.

One of the not-so-famous benefits is that the 5x100 front bearings are press-in, while the fronts on 5x114 cars are bolt-on. Rears are press-in either way.

Once they figure out why you're going through bearings so quickly the warranty will cease to be an issue. Then, having them replaced all the time will make this upgrade seem cheap. If you think about it, the labor charge should be more for a 4-wheel bearing change than it is for a hub swap since you still have to R&R the hubs AND press the bearings on/off.

My car has been out of warranty for some time now, so I got the hubs/knuckes off of a totaled '05 STi and just rounded out what I needed from there. The disadvantage with doing this is that it forces you to get 5x114 wheels and '05+ front struts/coilovers. If you already have good '04 suspension or several sets of 5x100 wheels, then the 6-gun remachined kits might make more sense.

That labor can add up tho... A friend and I did his in '06 and mine in '07. We did mine in about 6-7 hours and I had all the parts I would need beforehand. I prolly have about $700 in the conversion in total, including 2 new rear bearings. I do need to replace a front bearing as it's noisy (prolly one damaged in the car's totaling), so I will add 2 front bearings to that. In all, pretty close to the 6-gun normal 5x114 kit price.

Of course, you could always trade the '04 in on a '05-'07....

[na-STi]

Originally Posted by Splash

Well, you partially listed some of the justifications. The bigger bearings do last longer (I've read up to 4x longer), knockback is reduced, and there is a MUCH better wheel selection in 5x114 than 5x100.

One of the not-so-famous benefits is that the 5x100 front bearings are press-in, while the fronts on 5x114 cars are bolt-on. Rears are press-in either way.

Once they figure out why you're going through bearings so quickly the warranty will cease to be an issue. Then, having them replaced all the time will make this upgrade seem cheap. If you think about it, the labor charge should be more for a 4-wheel bearing change than it is for a hub swap since you still have to R&R the hubs AND press the bearings on/off.

My car has been out of warranty for some time now, so I got the hubs/knuckes off of a totaled '05 STi and just rounded out what I needed from there. The disadvantage with doing this is that it forces you to get 5x114 wheels and '05+ front struts/coilovers. If you already have good '04 suspension or several sets of 5x100 wheels, then the 6-gun remachined kits might make more sense.

That labor can add up tho... A friend and I did his in '06 and mine in '07. We did mine in about 6-7 hours and I had all the parts I would need beforehand. I prolly have about $700 in the conversion in total, including 2 new rear bearings. I do need to replace a front bearing as it's noisy (prolly one damaged in the car's totaling), so I will add 2 front bearings to that. In all, pretty close to the 6-gun normal 5x114 kit price.

Of course, you could always trade the '04 in on a '05-'07....

Thanks for the informative post. I was actually hoping that my car would hold up until I can buy a new car but I am not impressed with the new STI or Evo. Now it looks like I will have to hold onto my car for another 3 years or so since I am hoping they will make improvements to the STI or Evo.
So how much cheaper is it to replace the bearings on the 05+? Do the rears ever need replacing?

[yakmasterjack]

It definitely sucks for us 04 guys. I opted the cheap way and bought the 6gun 5X100 front hub kit. I couldn't afford to drop $3-4k to do the 05 swap like I would have wanted to so I'm piecing the equivalent over time. I still haven't even installed it yet, I don't get knockback on the street and rarely have a day to work on the car, but it'll be on before track days start up. I think if you can, go for the full 05 swap and do it right, but 5x100 swap will work as well.

Edit: I'm green to labor too, but get a friend, power tools, and a garage and save that $700 and be proud of the work. For me the justification of the swap is "pay to play", its something you just have to do.

Annddd a hub swapped 04 is better than any other model year.

[sciolist]

Originally Posted by na-STi

How did the 04.5 people justify the cost of this upgrade?

I've probably posted this somewhere before, but I don't see how you can justify the cost of not doing the swap.

I think typical shop costs for re-pressing all four corners are damn near the cost of the swap parts. You'll be able to sell your 5/100 wheels for more than the cost of 5/114 OE wheels... or whatever else you might want to apply that to. Then there's the front bolt-on factor to consider. I'd say the swap pretty much pays for itself in one set of bearings.

It helps to wait until you need rotors, I guess.

[loworbitSI]

Originally Posted by Splash

A friend and I did his in '06....

Hey thats me!

It's a large cost purchasing the parts required to spend a good weekend doing the swap. Then the old parts are forsale to offset the cost. It's VERY recommended if you continue to keep on driving your car like you should.

If it's just a bearing issue, and not a matter of the intent to squeeze on 17x10s (like I have), then get the remachined hubs, and it will save you lots. (shocks, brake rotors, wheels, etc)

[red5001]

I was able to keep the cost down looking around for some used parts. I did get lucky with a few parts. Got a set of used stock struts with springs. Sold the springs and left me with free struts. Got front knuckles and hubs from a wrecked car, The rears I was lucky enough to find a set for sale that someone didn't need anymore (knuckles and hubs brand new). I was able to sell the stock Gold wheels and buy a set of 05 wheels for pretty much near the same price I sold my stock wheels for. Rotors had both patterns already drilled on them. So I figure I pretty much broke even since the wheel bearings needed to be replaced anyways. The would have been somewhat cheaper but not a whole lot after finding someone to press out the old bearings and such. Plus I am doing the work my self that helps alot to. It did take me a few months to find all my parts so that is a down side but saved money in the process.

[na-STi]

So how much longer are your bearings lasting you guys now that you've done the swap?

[sciolist]

Originally Posted by na-STi

So how much longer are your bearings lasting you guys now that you've done the swap?

I think that question has to be asked in some sort of a context. For example, the rate of decay is going to be different with road racing, HPDE's, autoX, street driving, etc.

For the past three years, I've been doing about 500 autoX runs a season, and maybe putting 10K overall miles on the car. In that context, I'd say the 5/114 bearings last at least 250% as long as the 5/100s do.

Bear in mind that I'm using a minimum of 275 race tires on 10.5" wheels, and that is a big factor. It's not as big a factor as the level of heat you get from track events, though.

Hope that helps. It's not the easiest thing in the world to quantify.

[na-STi]

Originally Posted by sciolist

I think that question has to be asked in some sort of a context. For example, the rate of decay is going to be different with road racing, HPDE's, autoX, street driving, etc.

For the past three years, I've been doing about 500 autoX runs a season, and maybe putting 10K overall miles on the car. In that context, I'd say the 5/114 bearings last at least 250% as long as the 5/100s do.

Bear in mind that I'm using a minimum of 275 race tires on 10.5" wheels, and that is a big factor. It's not as big a factor as the level of heat you get from track events, though.

Hope that helps. It's not the easiest thing in the world to quantify.

Oh OK. I don't autoX. I've been to 2 track days during the first 28k miles of my car and I got one of the front bearings replaced under warranty. I'm guessing the other front bearing will go out any day.

So how much cheaper is it to replace an 05+ bearing as opposed to an 04?

[sciolist]

^You don't have to re-pack and press the '05+ units, so there's much less labor involved. I imagine the '05+ assembly costs a little more than a new set of bearings and seals, though.

Are you talking about comparing full-service rates for both? You should probably call a dealer and get prices for parts and labor, if that's what you want.

I do some of my own labor, and then get help from friends at a local shop, so it's hard to give a valid numerical comparision.

[Splash]

Yeah, the '05 front hub bolts onto the knuckle, so there is no knuckle removal involved. (ie; no alignment). Also no pressing labor involved.

When we did mine,

I had the stock pads down to nuthin (so I was looking at a rotor resurface at minimum), so I got new DRT rotors in 5x114 and DS2500 pads.

I had just sold off my '04 Ohlins struts and was on stockers. I had a used set of '05 stockers to run until I get new '05- coilovers this spring, and sold the '04 struts recently.

I bought 2 sets of cheap 5x114 wheels for winter and street duty, and I'm selling off the 5x100 wheels now.

Bought the '05 hubs/knuckles/axles from a totaled '05. This could have worked out cheaper but I put ARP studs in, so the rears had to come apart anyway. I replaced the rear bearings while they were apart. As it turns out, one front bearing growls, so I will replace both fronts soon.

If you do do it, I have a pair of the 6-gun racing speedo sensor adapter rings. The '05 have the rings further out on the axle and these rings space them out that distance.

However, if you choose not to do it, I still have some stuff to help you out... If you want to have less car downtime, you can buy my '04 hubs/knuckles and have new bearings pressed into them ahead of time, then just swap knuckles when you are ready. Heh, I also have a set of 5x100 Slipstreams left and a set of 5x100 rotors. (I think you may have already PM'd me about the wheels though)

[2blue4usti]

Labor for me is free (time spent). I wanted to do this upgrade in '08, but have to push it off. I plan to offset parts cost by selling parts I've removed.

[loworbitSI]

Did all my work in my garage with some help, so no labor rates here.
The rebuilding of the rear e-brake is easier the more you do it!

[polyol]

Correct me if im wrong but arent the rear hubs in the 04's the same as the 05+?..besides the obvious 5x114 difference.