[Luke]

If there were ways to modify your STi and still remain in the same competition class even though you have mods and you knew you could get away with it, would you do it?

You dont have to post a reply, but please vote.

For example, if steering rack bushings (04 only) were made in black and looked indistinguishable to stock bushings, would you install them even though you knew it was wrong and could not get caught?

Would you perform other modifications if undetectable by the officials?

Just curious in light of the Canseco scandal in the baseball world. I could care less why someone would or wouldn't. I know the reasons & arguments, but I am curious to see what people say, so vote in this anonymous pole.

[imaaaron]

This goes for almost any racing, and true competitors will always say no. It used to happen a lot when I raced jet skis, and here's how it works:

A cheater wins, gets the bragging rights, the trophies, and even some pay at the end of the day. However, nobody is there for the money, theres not enough of it to even pay your way. At the end of the day they win knowing they cheated.

When a true competitor wins without any cheating it is a great feeling. Thats why half of competitors are out there (especially at small weekend events). If you go home #1 at the end of the day, knowing that you outperformed everyone without any special help, you'll feel 5x better winning then the guy who cheated.

[sciolist]

Absolutely not a chance. It’s a game. There is no game without the rules.

There are plenty of other things to do in life where you can make up your own rules.

[WRXRATED7]

I raced my old '03 WRX in STX locally (AutoX) and I had one thing that was illegal. It was an '02-'03 STi hoodscoop. I just liked the looks of it was all. I found out it was illegal and I talked to my competition. None of them felt it was a big deal so I stayed in STX. I didn't win races by a huge margin so no one complained. If I knew it was illegal and didn't say anything...then that would've been cheating.

I'm going to stay A Stock legal in my STi for now. I might go to STU later. We'll see, but I'm not going to cheat.

[TwisterX]

Definetly not, if it was anything that gives you a performance advantage. What is the point, and where is the fun, in competing in a certain class, doing well, but knowing that you were on a different level than the other competitors? I think that is dispicable, personally.

However, there are some things that are illegal for the class, but on certain cars have no, or negligible performance advantage. For example, porting to prevent boost creep on the STi; this is technically a modification of the turbo charge, and should kick you right to SM in auto-x competition. However, it isn't a performance advantage and I don't think that is the type of mod that fits within the spirit of the rule. In that case, as far as local competition goes, I think it's ok to talk to your officials and your competitors and see if it's ok by them. If it is, you're good, but if not, then you go where the rules tell you.

[sciolist]

I definitely agree with the idea of talking things out with the locals. I’m sure the guys here would let me run without the wing, for example.

One problem with this, though, is that it’s not going to be valid for out-of-town events. Having to swap things back to stay in-class could get complex and expensive.

[WRXRATED7]

Originally Posted by sciolist

I definitely agree with the idea of talking things out with the locals. I’m sure the guys here would let me run without the wing, for example.

One problem with this, though, is that it’s not going to be valid for out-of-town events. Having to swap things back to stay in-class could get complex and expensive.

Exactly. I want to remove my wing soooooooooooo bad it's killing me (to take away some of the bling factor). My local region SCCA officials tell me I'll be in some crazy fast class (not even SM).

I like to travel to KC to race some of their events though and I know they won't be as cooperative since they're a much larger region.

[mx_9]

I have the damn ground wire mod on my car. At my first event last year I was trying to determine which class to run in. The AS guys heard me trying to figure things out and said that they didn't feel the gnd mod would offer any technical advantage and told me to choose AS. So I did. This year I'm not a Novice anymore so I'm checking with everyone in my class to see if their sentiments have changed. I'd take the wires out but I like the concept behind having clean and localized clean grounds.

Anyway, my point is that I'm running with a 'mod' that is a grey one BUT I'm checking to make sure my competitors are OK with it. One of them replied something along the lines of "I'm fine with it and have no issues. BUT, beware, if you start winning people are apt to change their stance!". He wouldn't, but his point is valid. So, I'd say to be 100% open...there's no point in compromising your integrity.

[STiylish]

WRXRated7: You can remove the wing and replace it with a smaller one like the stock wrx wing or get a wingless lid and a mines replica lip spoiler and run it in STU or ESP. They allow different wings just not elimination of the wing altogether.

mx9: there is a stock class allowance for ground wires in relation to the stereo system, download the rules at scca.org and see if it applies or not.

[mx_9]

Yeah, familiar with it but thanks for the pointer.

I never installed audio in the car. I did the mod simply because a clean ground makes sense.

[TwisterX]

Originally Posted by sciolist

I definitely agree with the idea of talking things out with the locals. I’m sure the guys here would let me run without the wing, for example.

One problem with this, though, is that it’s not going to be valid for out-of-town events. Having to swap things back to stay in-class could get complex and expensive.

Exactly, that's why I said "locally." Everytime you go to another region you'd have to have the same conversations, or swap parts, which is an unpleasant prospect.

[sciolist]

WRXRated7: You can remove the wing and replace it with a smaller one like the stock wrx wing or get a wingless lid and a mines replica lip spoiler and run it in STU or ESP. They allow different wings just not elimination of the wing altogether.

It has to be an allowed update or backdate in SP, so the stock wing is the only legal option. In SM you can use whatever wing you want, or no wing at all.

[jt_binary]

Chances are the some of the competition is cheating you regardless of whether or not you do the same... sometimes even unintentionally. I've been to tons of SCCA events and there's gray area where, for example, this region's club allows one thing on a particular car, another doesn't (which is what TwisterX mentioned... e.g. Grand Am allows fuel cells, SCCA Southeast doesn't <?> and goes to some pretty stupid lengths to complain about it for no good reason... but then ultimately must allow person to compete in the end b/c it's not cool to tell someone who come with a whole team w/ multiple cars for a whole weekend that he can't run just because his gas tank is different!!!) Point is some mods won't even get you any performance gains and you'll find yourself no longer in a class where u can be competitive...

When you get into more heavily moded cars, officials will allow tiny stuff to slide just to class a car where GENERALLY appropriate. It's up to you to tell them what mods you got, but it's ultimately up to the officials to measure if a car complies.

Substantial invisible cheats on an STi would be fuel pump, injectors, EcuTek. Not sure how much more HP you'd get out of the car without making it breathe better... is it even worth it just to beat some goons in AutoX? Why?? To beat young guys who are just learning? To give oneself a false sense of superiority by covering up a lack of skill?

Don't cheat. Get your car classed where it belongs, and your general skill level will prevail. Once you're winning, decide if you want to stay in that class... because you know if you make a mod or two that put you into a new class... there are just too many more to make to be competitive again!

I faced that with my old M3 @ AutoX -- I replaced the springs and sways with generally soft street parts, but found myself up against way more hardcore cars that are more dropped, significant weight saving measures, making more HP, running on DOTs. If you want to know where you really stand as far as skill level, stay stock as long as possible. Anyway, unless it's nearby and your car is set up specifically for it, AutoX sux -- wake up at 5:30am to stand in a damn parking lot ALL DAY for 4 minutes of track time total? I don't even care if I win my class, it ain't worth it to me personally.

[wrxtc]

Originally Posted by jt_binary

Anyway, unless it's nearby and your car is set up specifically for it, AutoX sux -- wake up at 5:30am to stand in a damn parking lot ALL DAY for 4 minutes of track time total? I don't even care if I win my class, it ain't worth it to me personally.

Aww man, when you put it like that..

Actually there are autocross events held in a parking lot extremely close to my house: (Charlotte) Knights Stadium here in Fort Mill, SC. Every time I notice miata's with race numbers on them heading down the road I swing by to check it out for a bit. I gotta say it looks really fun but yea the dudes sitting/standing around waiting for their turn look pretty bored.

Hmm, how could I entertain myself while I wait.. there's GOTTA be some way I could play Gran Turismo 4 in the lot.. hmm..

[felonious]

Cheating would take away all my fun. I get a great sense of pride when I can beat someone not only with a bone stock car, but with added weight (stereo) and OEM street tires (AS). If I cheated, that pride would go out the window, and so would my fun factor.

-Ollie