Bad Tune from Automaster

PolarisSnT · 03-07-2007, 08:56 AM

So I will start from the beginning so I get all the details in.

Setup:
PE1820
Helix660cc
TurboXS FMIC
Cobb AccessPort
Coolingmist 5gph alcohol injection

August 26, 2006: I drive down to Maryland to have Jorge from P&L Motorsports tune my car. I had a TurboXS TMIC on at this time. Keeping it conservative Jorge sends me on my way with 304whp at 21psi and a great driving car. I proceed to run 106mph with this setup in 77 degree weather and a bad 60' time.

October comes around and I have some extra money and decide that I want a front mount. I install the FMIC and, upon recommendation, I go to get tuned at Automaster.

October 10, 2006: I drive to Automaster and when I get there, I was told that I needed all the cables for the AP, something that I was not told befroe I elft my house. So i wasted an entire day only to have to return the next day with the cables.

October 11, 2006: I return with the cable this time and Rob proceeds to tune me. After 6 hours on the dyno, and Rob running around trying to run teh shop and tune, my car was finished. The car seemed to pull nicely, but was having a major idle issue and would not build more than 19psi of boost. Rob says that there must be a leak in the piping but the car still made 286whp, which I was told would be around 340whp on a dyno jet becasue his dyno reads 22% lower.

November 17, 2006: Take my car to the track. It is a cool night with a temperature of 44 degrees. The best pass I could run was 102.5mph witha 1.8 60'. I knew something was wrong with the car.

I call up Rob and he is baffled so he tells me to come back.

November 29/30(I dont remember but it was one of these two days): I go back to Automaster and the car is put on the dyno. The first pull, without touching a thing, results in a 270whp run with the AFRs going rich. Rob tells me he can fix it, and sends me on my way with 290whp. This time the car in undriveable due to a studder that occured when teh throttle was in the 10-15% range(datalogging). The ar would buck and try to stall, not to mention that it would not idle properly.

All of this was stated to be a problem with the car and nothing else. I was told the car was complete and that with the new found power I should have no problem trapping 110+mph.

Now that Im annoyed that I was tuned twice and the car drives like crap, I decide to load in my maps from Jorge. Low and behold none of the symptoms that were there with Robs tune, are not there with Jorge's tune. The car does not search for an idle and it holds 21psi.

So now I know that the car is mechanically sounds(except for a small leak comming from the bypass vlave) and the car is capable of running 21psi and being smooth. I call up Rob and tell him that I am no longer interested in his services and want my money back. He tells me that since I am not willing to have him fix the problem for the third time, he will only give me back half my money. I saw no reason to let him try again as he did not state to me, any reason why he could not get it done right the first 2 times. So now Im out $200.

I decided to go try out Jr. at ICS Performance. I switch to a UTEC and a MBC but before I do, I left the car exactly as it was from Rob and did a baseline pull on a dyno jet.

My results were shocking. My AFRs bottomed out at 10:1(only becasue the sensor can not read any lower) and I had made 265whp(SAE corrected, 281 Uncorrected). This proved to me that I was lied to about Robs dyno reading low, when in fact it actually read high.

Below are graphs from Robs tune on a dyno jet and on Robs dyno dynamics.

The low redline on the dyno jet graph is Robs tune and you can see how the AFRs just nose dive at 2.5k. It is also interesting to note that the timing was high as well. This seemed to be Robs trademark style of tuning as I was shown a series of other cars that had problems with their Automaster tune.

February 20, 2007: Rob IMs me due to the recent stirring of controversy in the thread from PPB. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1205653 He tells me that he was not happy that I decided to tarnish his name, and I stated that I did not state anything bad about him or his company, just my experience. I asked for the rest of my money back and was told I was being rediculous. Rob proceeded to tell me how there was something wrong with his software and my car was not holding the tune becasue his parameters were not being saved. This was something that I was never told about and I was assured that after my car came off the dyno I was good to go.
If these parameters were not being saved, how could I have gotten back on his dyno and still make 270whp? I believe this just a cover up for a bad tune. He told me that he had called Cobb Tuning and they told him to download new software. I had later called Cobb Tuning(this was back in November) and they were baffled by my car, did not understand what was going on, and never mentioned the new software.

This was not ment to bash Automaster. Rob was very friendly to me and we got a long nicely. I just received the short end of the stick and it cost me a lot of time and money. Think of this as a Consumer Report becasue it is certainly not a personal attack, it is me stating my experience and that needs to be done more often around here.

-Dan

Chris05STi · 03-07-2007, 09:15 AM

^Interesting. Lets see what Rob has to say about this? My friend has a idle issue as well after warm startups.

**AutoMaster** · 03-07-2007, 10:26 AM

PolarisSNT,

Are you honestly serious right now? This conversation and situation was discussed about 6 months ago. I would appreciate if you stop going under every forum and everyone of my customers posts and starting problems. You keep stating that you are not bashing us, but yet every single time under every forum when someone mentions us you bring this situation up. Not to mention, if you bring up a story, try to post THE ENTIRE thing and not just what you want to make us look bad.

Also, this is an STI forum not a WRX.

-Rob

***Insane06STi*** · 03-07-2007, 10:31 AM

Wow!!

SubySat · 03-07-2007, 10:39 AM

LOL!!!! I was there for this. BRO you are so full of it! LOL!

CALLING MODERATORS!!!

STI Tiff · 03-07-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubySat

LOL!!!! I was there for this. BRO you are so full of it! LOL!

CALLING MODERATORS!!!

So.. then what happened.

jmanrex · 03-07-2007, 11:00 AM

not to discredit anyone or take sides but i always love to read a bad review or problem when it is the members first post

supermarkus · 03-07-2007, 11:04 AM

So nasioc is down for maintenance and you had nothing better to do than take up the fight here? Nice first post.

SubySat · 03-07-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STI Tiff

So.. then what happened.

lol yea.. Rob took good care of this kid. They were having a problem with his AP and the MAP saving or something like that. Rob was on the phone with COBB when I was there to get it situated. He was suppose to come back which he said he would instead he went out and bought a UTEC and went to ICS.

STI Tiff · 03-07-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubySat

lol yea.. Rob took good care of this kid. They were having a problem with his AP and the MAP saving or something like that. Rob was on the phone with COBB when I was there to get it situated. He was suppose to come back which he said he would instead he went out and bought a UTEC and went to ICS.

Nice and to the point, thank you.

Chris05STi · 03-07-2007, 11:14 AM

See, there should always be two sides to the story....and hearing the one side complain isn't enough for me to determine the issue. Hearing both sides before, and then determine upon yourself what is right for you to think. I see it this way, if someone has a problem, states it, it gets taken care of and fixed, then I see no harm done. If the customer doesn't want to come back again after something was the issue, then how can things get better? Also, not too many people understand this: Mod'ing a car isn't easy, your going to have bumps in the road........take a look at Bruce and his ride, but you have to keep on going and solve the problem until everything is all good to go. Just aslong as your taken care of by the person who performed the service.

Side example: I had a customer who had some work done to his car. Apparently, he was leaking some oil from the oil pressure sensor we put in. Crap happens, it didn't show this when he was there, but after he got home after a long drive it was there. What did we do? Drove up to his house, fixed the problem (needed to be tighter and sealed better), and checked it out, no more leaks!! Hey crap happens, but the issue was resolved, customer was happy.

SubySat · 03-07-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris05STi

See, there should always be two sides to the story....and hearing the one side complain isn't enough for me to determine the issue. Hearing both sides before, and then determine upon yourself what is right for you to think. I see it this way, if someone has a problem, states it, it gets taken care of and fixed, then I see no harm done. If the customer doesn't want to come back again after something was the issue, then how can things get better? Also, not too many people understand this: Mod'ing a car isn't easy, your going to have bumps in the road........take a look at Bruce and his ride, but you have to keep on going and solve the problem until everything is all good to go. Just aslong as your taken care of by the person who performed the service.

Side example: I had a customer who had some work done to his car. Apparently, he was leaking some oil from the oil pressure sensor we put in. Crap happens, it didn't show this when he was there, but after he got home after a long drive it was there. What did we do? Drove up to his house, fixed the problem (needed to be tighter and sealed better), and checked it out, no more leaks!! Hey crap happens, but the issue was resolved, customer was happy.

i agree. but if they dont come back how can you fix it. excellent point.

SubySat · 03-07-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supermarkus

So nasioc is down for maintenance and you had nothing better to do than take up the fight here? Nice first post.

uncle lewie · 03-07-2007, 11:28 AM

What are your times after the Junior tune?

jmanrex · 03-07-2007, 11:37 AM

i would be surprised if that person posts again

03-07-2007, 08:56 AM	#1
PolarisSnT Amateur STI Driver Posts: 29 Join Date: Mar 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Bad Tune from Automaster So I will start from the beginning so I get all the details in. Setup: PE1820 Helix660cc TurboXS FMIC Cobb AccessPort Coolingmist 5gph alcohol injection August 26, 2006: I drive down to Maryland to have Jorge from P&L Motorsports tune my car. I had a TurboXS TMIC on at this time. Keeping it conservative Jorge sends me on my way with 304whp at 21psi and a great driving car. I proceed to run 106mph with this setup in 77 degree weather and a bad 60' time. October comes around and I have some extra money and decide that I want a front mount. I install the FMIC and, upon recommendation, I go to get tuned at Automaster. October 10, 2006: I drive to Automaster and when I get there, I was told that I needed all the cables for the AP, something that I was not told befroe I elft my house. So i wasted an entire day only to have to return the next day with the cables. October 11, 2006: I return with the cable this time and Rob proceeds to tune me. After 6 hours on the dyno, and Rob running around trying to run teh shop and tune, my car was finished. The car seemed to pull nicely, but was having a major idle issue and would not build more than 19psi of boost. Rob says that there must be a leak in the piping but the car still made 286whp, which I was told would be around 340whp on a dyno jet becasue his dyno reads 22% lower. November 17, 2006: Take my car to the track. It is a cool night with a temperature of 44 degrees. The best pass I could run was 102.5mph witha 1.8 60'. I knew something was wrong with the car. I call up Rob and he is baffled so he tells me to come back. November 29/30(I dont remember but it was one of these two days): I go back to Automaster and the car is put on the dyno. The first pull, without touching a thing, results in a 270whp run with the AFRs going rich. Rob tells me he can fix it, and sends me on my way with 290whp. This time the car in undriveable due to a studder that occured when teh throttle was in the 10-15% range(datalogging). The ar would buck and try to stall, not to mention that it would not idle properly. All of this was stated to be a problem with the car and nothing else. I was told the car was complete and that with the new found power I should have no problem trapping 110+mph. Now that Im annoyed that I was tuned twice and the car drives like crap, I decide to load in my maps from Jorge. Low and behold none of the symptoms that were there with Robs tune, are not there with Jorge's tune. The car does not search for an idle and it holds 21psi. So now I know that the car is mechanically sounds(except for a small leak comming from the bypass vlave) and the car is capable of running 21psi and being smooth. I call up Rob and tell him that I am no longer interested in his services and want my money back. He tells me that since I am not willing to have him fix the problem for the third time, he will only give me back half my money. I saw no reason to let him try again as he did not state to me, any reason why he could not get it done right the first 2 times. So now Im out $200. I decided to go try out Jr. at ICS Performance. I switch to a UTEC and a MBC but before I do, I left the car exactly as it was from Rob and did a baseline pull on a dyno jet. My results were shocking. My AFRs bottomed out at 10:1(only becasue the sensor can not read any lower) and I had made 265whp(SAE corrected, 281 Uncorrected). This proved to me that I was lied to about Robs dyno reading low, when in fact it actually read high. Below are graphs from Robs tune on a dyno jet and on Robs dyno dynamics. The low redline on the dyno jet graph is Robs tune and you can see how the AFRs just nose dive at 2.5k. It is also interesting to note that the timing was high as well. This seemed to be Robs trademark style of tuning as I was shown a series of other cars that had problems with their Automaster tune. February 20, 2007: Rob IMs me due to the recent stirring of controversy in the thread from PPB. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1205653 He tells me that he was not happy that I decided to tarnish his name, and I stated that I did not state anything bad about him or his company, just my experience. I asked for the rest of my money back and was told I was being rediculous. Rob proceeded to tell me how there was something wrong with his software and my car was not holding the tune becasue his parameters were not being saved. This was something that I was never told about and I was assured that after my car came off the dyno I was good to go. If these parameters were not being saved, how could I have gotten back on his dyno and still make 270whp? I believe this just a cover up for a bad tune. He told me that he had called Cobb Tuning and they told him to download new software. I had later called Cobb Tuning(this was back in November) and they were baffled by my car, did not understand what was going on, and never mentioned the new software. This was not ment to bash Automaster. Rob was very friendly to me and we got a long nicely. I just received the short end of the stick and it cost me a lot of time and money. Think of this as a Consumer Report becasue it is certainly not a personal attack, it is me stating my experience and that needs to be done more often around here. -Dan This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

03-07-2007, 10:26 AM	#3
AutoMaster Authorized Vendor Car: Where Real Power is Fav Mod: Tuning & Performance Location: Mamaroneck, NY 10543 Posts: 662 Join Date: May 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	PolarisSNT, Are you honestly serious right now? This conversation and situation was discussed about 6 months ago. I would appreciate if you stop going under every forum and everyone of my customers posts and starting problems. You keep stating that you are not bashing us, but yet every single time under every forum when someone mentions us you bring this situation up. Not to mention, if you bring up a story, try to post THE ENTIRE thing and not just what you want to make us look bad. Also, this is an STI forum not a WRX. -Rob Last edited by AutoMaster : 03-07-2007 at 10:35 AM.

03-07-2007, 11:37 AM	#15
jmanrex Professional STI Driver Car: 04 wrb sti Fav Mod: buying a sti and gias Location: enola, pa Posts: 498 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	i would be surprised if that person posts again This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

03-07-2007, 09:15 AM	#2
Chris05STi I Has a Turbo Timer Car: 2005 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Every single one! Location: NJ Posts: 9,669 Join Date: Jun 2005 Trader Rating: (27)	^Interesting. Lets see what Rob has to say about this? My friend has a idle issue as well after warm startups.

03-07-2007, 10:31 AM	#4
*Insane06STi* Nanned ® Location: Where the left lane is th Posts: 17,349 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (9)	Wow!!

03-07-2007, 10:39 AM	#5
SubySat STI Driver Car: 05 Crystal Grey Fav Mod: AMR BIG MAF Location: Rockland County Posts: 251 Join Date: Mar 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	LOL!!!! I was there for this. BRO you are so full of it! LOL! CALLING MODERATORS!!!

03-07-2007, 11:00 AM	#7
jmanrex Professional STI Driver Car: 04 wrb sti Fav Mod: buying a sti and gias Location: enola, pa Posts: 498 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	not to discredit anyone or take sides but i always love to read a bad review or problem when it is the members first post

03-07-2007, 11:04 AM	#8
supermarkus Spec C Club Car: 08 STi, SSM Location: Edmonds Washington Posts: 1,441 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	So nasioc is down for maintenance and you had nothing better to do than take up the fight here? Nice first post.

03-07-2007, 11:14 AM	#11
Chris05STi I Has a Turbo Timer Car: 2005 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Every single one! Location: NJ Posts: 9,669 Join Date: Jun 2005 Trader Rating: (27)	See, there should always be two sides to the story....and hearing the one side complain isn't enough for me to determine the issue. Hearing both sides before, and then determine upon yourself what is right for you to think. I see it this way, if someone has a problem, states it, it gets taken care of and fixed, then I see no harm done. If the customer doesn't want to come back again after something was the issue, then how can things get better? Also, not too many people understand this: Mod'ing a car isn't easy, your going to have bumps in the road........take a look at Bruce and his ride, but you have to keep on going and solve the problem until everything is all good to go. Just aslong as your taken care of by the person who performed the service. Side example: I had a customer who had some work done to his car. Apparently, he was leaking some oil from the oil pressure sensor we put in. Crap happens, it didn't show this when he was there, but after he got home after a long drive it was there. What did we do? Drove up to his house, fixed the problem (needed to be tighter and sealed better), and checked it out, no more leaks!! Hey crap happens, but the issue was resolved, customer was happy.

03-07-2007, 11:28 AM	#14
uncle lewie Spec C Club Car: 06 Aspen White w. Go Fav Mod: teH Muff Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,075 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (7)	What are your times after the Junior tune?