[Kevin]

Rules: Posting in this forum means that you agree to abide by these rules. Failure to follow these rules will result in edited posts, deleted posts, and/or an infraction that could limit your ability to participate on the site:


You agree:

• that you will not create a thread unless you have a dyno graph to share with the community
• that you have rated your tuner (your experience with your tuner) in their respective rating thread (if you have a dyno graph) or you can create one if one doe not exist. Please see this forum to rate your tuner and share your experience with that tuner: Review STi Tuners
• to not use this forum as a substitute for creating a member journal in the Members' Journals forum (read this before you create a Member Journal in that forum);
• to use a properly formatted title;
• to link to your tuner rating post in the Tuner Review Forum, and link to your member journal (if you have one).
• to not use this forum as a substitute to rate a tuner or challenge
• Treat threads created in here with the same respect to the original poster as you would in the Members' Journals Forum;
• to STRICTLY adhere and fill out the template below;

================================================== =====

Format of your thread title for dyno graph: Year Model - XXXwhp/XXXwtq

Example: 2008 STI - 350whp/365wtq

================================================== =========

Contents of your post:

King Of Imports STI <--- Name of your car (or title of your member journal), linked to your member journal so someone can read more information about your car. Read this tip if you frequently change your thread title to let members know of your updates or recent changes.

Numbers
Dyno:
Tuner:
Wheel HP:
Wheel TQ:
Ambient Temp:
Elevation:

Car Info <-- You can also link to your member journal here.
Year:
Engine Management:
Turbo:
Intercooler:
Meth Kit:
Injectors:
Intake/Inlet:
Headers:
Uppipe:
Downpipe:
CBE:
Other Power Mods:

Link to your tuner's rating thread:
[Insert Link Here]

[Insert Dyno Graph Here]

[Discuss your experience and future plans go here]

[Insert Pics while your car was on the dyno, at the dyno facility, or being tuned (or any others related to the experience you describe above)]

[Kevin]

When you change the title to your member journal, this will affect the actual URL to your journal. As a result, people who follow old URLs will not find your member journal.

If you want people to find your member journal after you change the title, then you should use the following URL and add your member journal thread title to the end:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=



The URL to my member journal is:
King of Imports' STi

You will notice that the thread number of my member journal is 22775.



I would therefore use the following URL when I want to link people to my member journal:

King of Imports' STi

[jasv11]

Hope its ok to ask a question here

What if your tune is a road tune and you have no dyno numbers to add........just a drag slip result, which in my opinion is the more accurate description of power than the different reading dynoes out there.

Thanks for this section

[Inn-Tune]

I hope I'm not offending anyone and I applaud the staff for taking member's requests into consideration and putting them into action, but I have to agree with jasv11 here. Since we all know numbers on any kind of dyno are far too easily manipulated, dyno numbers don't prove anything to me. A quarter mile pass at a legitimate track with proof of your time and a backup proves something.

I guess I'm gently opposing calling a forum full of dyno numbers "proven power", so how about calling it something simple like "DYNO RESULTS". A lot of members including myself take time when they can to dispel myths and make the boards we're on as informative to members as possible. Calling this "proven power" seems to be a step in other direction.

OK OK I'm being a Scrooge...happy holidays!

[Majin]

Originally Posted by jasv11

Hope its ok to ask a question here

What if your tune is a road tune and you have no dyno numbers to add........just a drag slip result, which in my opinion is the more accurate description of power than the different reading dynoes out there.

Thanks for this section

that would really not help at all and would actually be worse of a gauge, reasons being that there are easily more variables on the slip time method than on dynos:

• different tracks
• different elevations
• different days (weather related)
• different drivers
• etc.

dynos are going to show power, torque, boost, and AFRs. even if the numbers read that much differently from your local dyno, you can use boost, AFRs, and your modifications to gauge your setup according to the one you are reading about.

[Inn-Tune]

Originally Posted by Majin

dynos are going to show power, torque, boost, and AFRs. even if the numbers read that much differently from your local dyno, you can use boost, AFRs, and your modifications to gauge your setup according to the one you are reading about.

Don't take this personally, but that makes no sense. You can't gauge your setup based on another car's numbers on another dyno. All dynos read differently, plus differences as simple as different wheels, how a car is strapped, where the intake air temp sensor (if any) is placed, correction factors used, tire pressure and type, weight adjustment to rollers etc. etc. all change the numbers.

A good dyno when properly used is a useful tuning tool, but ALL dynos are easily manipulated to show any numbers the shop wants.

I know plenty of members aren't aware of all this and they look at dyno numbers like they're all on the same scale. If someone dynos 450 at one place at 550 at the next, how much power do they have? Was the car putting out more power when it laid down 550? Nobody knows...

It's gotten so bad that Buschur and many others take their car from their dyno to another dyno which reads higher so customers get more exited about the numbers. He knows it's BS, but he also knows that there are tons of people that don't, so it makes sense from a marketing standpoint and I don't blame him at all. If you can make another 100 horsepower on another dyno and show off the numbers to uneducated customers, why not?

It's just sad to see this being perpetuated by calling dyno numbers proven power bragging. You probably think I'm nit picking, but when customers come in or call in on a daily basis to say they want X turbo solely because they saw a dyno graph of some car with high #'s, you realize how seriously lost people are about what dyno numbers mean.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by Inn-Tune

Don't take this personally, but that makes no sense. You can't gauge your setup based on another car's numbers on another dyno.

sorry that didn't make sense to you.

cars tuned on a dyno will yield results consistently within a particular average range. this is detailed in normal distribution (where the old familiar "bell curve" shows us a graph of probability density).

example: 95% of stage 2 protuned cars make ~300whp (+/- ~10whp)

regardless of all the extra [tangetial] information you provided (which provides us with explanations of the variables themselves rather than the amount of variance in the actual variables), every single dyno will have it's results based in a particular normal distribution; all dynos then combined will also fit inside a [different - yet larger] normal distribution.

my points are:

• dynos are going to display 4 variables: power, torque, boost, and AFRs.
• based in the normal distribution of the particular dyno you are tuned on, you can see how well your car/setup/tune/etc. measured up against the other similar setup cars on that same dyno.
• roughly 95% of all stage 2 protuned (for this example) will put down xxx whp on this particular dyno with the same mods [as per the empirical rule of standard deviation].
• all dynos have their own particular standard deviation, but they correlate directly to the standard deviation of your local dyno, (i.e.: 290whp on my local dyno = 319whp on John Doe's dyno).
• even if the numbers read that much differently from your local dyno, you can use boost, AFRs, and your modifications to gauge your setup according to the one you are reading about.

so, with this information, you can see how your car measures up against your friend's car. just because your friend has higher numbers, doesn't mean it has more power. it just means that the tool your friend's tuner used is calibrated to read differently than your tuner's dyno.

[sujak]

Supplying a baseline dyno would help too. Since most dynos don't show the same number as another one, showing your baseline compared to stage 1 or stage 2 can show us the amount of hp/tq increased.

I dunno, i like how its setup. nice and fun to read imo.

[slicknick112]

How about providing a source to your 95% to provide some validity to your statement?

[Majin]

Originally Posted by slicknick112

How about providing a source to your 95% to provide some validity to your statement?

all the validity you need can be found in your local high school mathematics book.

i answered that in the third bullet in my list, but to further take this thread off-topic, the 'empirical rule' in normal distribution states that being within two standard deviations from the average accounts for about 95% of the results.

if you are referring to the actual numbers used in the examples, it was clearly stated they were examples and approximations (~).

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by slicknick112

How about providing a source to your 95% to provide some validity to your statement?

I don't think he was using it as a rule. Just an example. I think people are nitpicking his comment a little too much. His argument was that a dyno is a better comparison of 2 cars than a drag strip. I think that was lost after Inn-Tune picked apart what he initially said.

That said, comparing any two cars is kinda silly IMO. You never really get much good data. People should spend more time evaluating what their own car is doing and what they want from it to make their power decisions.

[Neanderthal Racing]

why don't we just agree that dyno results and time slips are both just reference points with all the variables that go along with them. they both have validity. when i post my dyno results i would love to be able to follow that up with a time slip.

[slicknick112]

Originally Posted by lackskill

I don't think he was using it as a rule. Just an example. I think people are nitpicking his comment a little too much. His argument was that a dyno is a better comparison of 2 cars than a drag strip. I think that was lost after Inn-Tune picked apart what he initially said.

That said, comparing any two cars is kinda silly IMO. You never really get much good data. People should spend more time evaluating what their own car is doing and what they want from it to make their power decisions.

I do agree comparing any two cars will never yield the same results. Too much good data is never a bad thing, that was the basis of my comment. Just from first hand experience, my06 "stage 2" only put down 251 whp and 263 wtq on a local dyno. Far from his "~300whp (+/- ~10whp)" . Of course I am only one car.

I understand that there are extremes on both ends of the spectrum.

All in all, using dyno numbers as Proven bragging is as good as we have right now for comparison.

[lackskill]

Originally Posted by slicknick112

I do agree comparing any two cars will never yield the same results. Too much good data is never a bad thing, that was the basis of my comment. Just from first hand experience, my06 "stage 2" only put down 251 whp and 263 wtq on a local dyno. Far from his "~300whp (+/- ~10whp)" . Of course I am only one car.

I understand that there are extremes on both ends of the spectrum.

All in all, using dyno numbers as Proven bragging is as good as we have right now for comparison.

Again, I believe the 300hp was simply an example. FWIW, 251 is ~ 16% below 300. Not a huge margin when you look at it that way. If we were nitpicking, I would say 280 +/- 20 would be pretty close. But I am not going to spend the time to back that up with imperical data.

[uncle lewie]

I agree a 100% with the whole timeslips argument.


HOWEVER, this forum has like eleventy billion sub sections (which at times makes it confusing and annoying) but if you go to the sub section "STi Sanctioned Motorsports" then hit the sub section above it "Fastest Times" its where you will see 1/4 times as well as slips. Thats all under the General sub section btw. IMO, just turn that all into power bragging, the dyno sheets, tunes, 1/4 times, and discussing who tuned the car to make it run that 1/4 time. This section should be re-titled "Dyno Graphs" if anything. No one would have to read the rules and one would understand, "hey, i need a dyno graph, to post here."