[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

Aside from other things.... I think you seriously missed the point!

I was trying to say that if everyone lived by those values, no one would need to carry a gun because there would be no crime, no lying, no stealing, no murder, no fraud....

Are you saying that's not true?

I think it best not to try and frame the world idealistically. It only leads to disappointment.

Go about your business and your life as though the world is right, but at all times be prepared, for all is never right with the world.

[gohrsepwr]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

Agreed 100% with you! However, if someone comes up to me on the street and wants to take my money. I would much rather have a knife on me than a gun!

I think my odds of surviving a knife attack vs. a gun attack if something were to go wrong would be much better

what do you think your odds would be if you had a H&K 45 acp when he pulled the knife? 45acp>knife and like already said over and over, the scum bag that is going to rob you doesnt care if there is a cdl or any other gun control, hes going to have a gun.

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

Aside from other things.... I think you seriously missed the point!

I was trying to say that if everyone lived by those values, no one would need to carry a gun because there would be no crime, no lying, no stealing, no murder, no fraud....

Are you saying that's not true?

IF that were to be true you would be right but that is an idealistic statement and lets face it its never going to happen, as nice as a thought it is

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

I think it best not to try and frame the world idealistically. It only leads to disappointment.

Go about your business and your life as though the world is right, but at all times be prepared, for all is never right with the world.

+1 well said...i should have read all the posts after mine instead of replying right away! lol

[jaydow11]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

I think it best not to try and frame the world idealistically. It only leads to disappointment.

Go about your business and your life as though the world is right, but at all times be prepared, for all is never right with the world.

Trust me, I don't think, live, believe the world is "right"! And by no means am I a saint myself

I also don't think that all this bad in the world is going to change anytime soon!

But remember, those people with radical ideas that are, most of the time, crusified/bannished/killed because of their idea, are the ones that are actually right in the end.

Just look at Slavery. The church was the one main supporters along with a lot of wealthy people and didn't want slavery to ever end. It wasn't until a very small select few people started to speak up and saying "this isn't right". In the beginning thedr people who spoke up were no very popular at all and sometimes even killed!

Well these people turned out to be right in the end!

Can the same thing happen to everyone's views about guns?

[RuralSTI]

I think there are those that should carry and those that should not, when looking at "good" guys.

1. The guy that has his pistol with him all the time, and will use it. He is ready to do what needs to be done and accept the results of his actions.

2. The person that for whatever reason does not carry, like our friend from the north here. They don't carry and prob don't even own a pistol, but also would not use one if they had it with them.

It would seem as simple to live and let live. If you don't want to carry then don't. and don't carry if you can't use it when the time comes. I would say to not make fun of those that don't carry but it seems like more often then not its the people who do not carry who are pushing on the ones that do.

But I am kinda on the carry side of the coin sooo. take it for what its worth.

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

Trust me, I don't think, live, believe the world is "right"! And by no means am I a saint myself

I also don't think that all this bad in the world is going to change anytime soon!

But remember, those people with radical ideas that are, most of the time, crusified/bannished/killed because of their idea, are the ones that are actually right in the end.

Just look at Slavery. The church was the one main supporters along with a lot of wealthy people and didn't want slavery to ever end. It wasn't until a very small select few people started to speak up and saying "this isn't right". In the beginning thedr people who spoke up were no very popular at all and sometimes even killed!

Well these people turned out to be right in the end!

Can the same thing happen to everyone's views about guns?

i bet the first few people will be killed by people that dont have CCW licenses! sorry but i had to...this is a little bit different than slavery, human nature nowadays tells us that its wrong to control another human being, however thats what the government is trying to do by banning the right to choose to carry a firearm

[couchflambeau]

Little Gun History Lesson

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-------------------------


Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

----------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by couchflambeau

Little Gun History Lesson

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-------------------------


Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

----------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

good find, thats a very interesting statistic

[couchflambeau]

And those are just figures as a result of "righteous government" inflicting itself on it's citizens.

Until there is some kind of universal human epiphany re: how we view and treat each other, I suggest you look out for your own personal freedoms. There are just too many out there willing to deprive you of said.

With Guns...........We Are "Citizens".
Without Them.....We Are “Subjects" Or Just “Victims"

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by couchflambeau

And those are just figures as a result of "righteous government" inflicting itself on it's citizens.

Until there is some kind of universal human epiphany re: how we view and treat each other, I suggest you look out for your own personal freedoms. There are just too many out there willing to deprive you of said.

With Guns...........We Are "Citizens".
Without Them.....We Are “Subjects" Or Just “Victims"

i agree with you, the choice to carry or not carry should be the choice of the individual but making all firearms illegal isnt going to solve anything only make it worse because then we are victims, as you said, of people/governments that think they are above the law

[1loudsti]

U.S. Statistics Source Last Year*
Firearm & Ammunition Sales U.S. Dept. of the Treasury Up 2.6% to $2.1 billion
Firearms Produced for Retail Sale (ATF) 2,947,008
Firearms Imported for Retail Sale U.S. Census Bureau 1,845,366
Right to Carry Laws National Rifle Association (NRA) Passed in 2 more states Firearm Crimes Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Down 2.4% to 339,280
Firearm Suicides Centers for Disease Control (CDC)Down 1.1% to 16,907
Accidental Firearm Fatalities National Safety Council Tied previous year’s all-time low of 700
Accidental Firearm Fatalities, National Safety Council Down to all-time low of 60
Age 14 & Under


Trend: Sales up 27.7% since 1998, Produced for retail sale 22.8 million total since 1998 . Imported 10.7 million total since 1998 . Right to carry laws now in 40 states; 9 added since 1998 . Firearm crimes down 7% since 1998 Accidental firearm fatalities down 1.8% since 1998. Accidental firearm fatalities 14 and under down 19.2% since 1998 Down 50.4% since 1998


http://www.nssf.org/share/BP2/2006/060506.htm?AoI=media

[Tortfeasor STi]

Originally Posted by couchflambeau

Little Gun History Lesson

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-------------------------


Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

----------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

Argument here is what? After the fact therefore because of the fact? Formal logical fallacy there my friend. The fact of the matter is that these exterminations probably would have happened anyway regardless of gun control laws and people's concealed carry status. Ethnic Hatreds have been around for millenia and began way before guns. Do we blame swords and the long bow for the crusades?

Also, since we are talking about concealed carry outside the auspecies of the constitution, then what exactly is the debate? Basically you are either for it or against it. Classic individual freedom vs. perceived societal best interest discussion. There is no definitive answer to the debate here. Frankly, it renders discussion pointless. To discuss gun ownership/control outside of a legal frame work leaves you with nothing but ethical and freedom issues neither of which can be resolved.

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor STi

Argument here is what? After the fact therefore because of the fact? Formal logical fallacy there my friend. The fact of the matter is that these exterminations probably would have happened anyway regardless of gun control laws and people's concealed carry status. Ethnic Hatreds have been around for millenia and began way before guns. Do we blame swords and the long bow for the crusades?

Also, since we are talking about concealed carry outside the auspecies of the constitution, then what exactly is the debate? Basically you are either for it or against it. Classic individual freedom vs. perceived societal best interest discussion. There is no definitive answer to the debate here. Frankly, it renders discussion pointless. To discuss gun ownership/control outside of a legal frame work leaves you with nothing but ethical and freedom issues neither of which can be resolved.

[fullerton]

While I agree that the attempt at genocide would have continued, regardless of gun control, who's to say the outcome would not have been different?