[JD06STi]

'if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns..'

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

I can also see that being true for sure!

However, I guess there are just a lot of "what if's" that people would have.

For example, road rage. We all know some people absolutly loose their minds in their cars.

Various possible outcomes for something as simple as cutting someone off durning a lane change:

1.) No one gets hurt because both are too afraid to get out of their cars for fear of getting shot.
2.) Both get out of their cars, show they have a gun, both get back into their cars for fear of getting shot.
3.) Both get out of their cars, the freak (road rager) opens fire and kills other person.
4.) Both get out, Freak opens fire, other person does too and kills Freak.
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So what's the most likley outcome?

We'll I would rather it be so NO ONE HAD A GUN so the worst that could happen to me was a beating if it got to that point and I sucked at fighting!

I don't know about you, but I would rather not have the thought of a gun in any kind of situation.

It's a lot harder to kill someone with your hands than to shoot them with a gun...

this is true but common human nature is self preservation therefore neither person would get out or they would go back because deep down no one really wants to die like that

[jaydow11]

I guess the only way to see if it would work would be to implement it.... But as if that will ever happen....

[fullerton]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor STi

IBneanderthalracing
I have mixed feeling about it honestly. I approve of individual freedoms, but the world is full of crazy mofos that I do not want packing heat. In an armed society, I think I would wear a bullet proof vest every day.

Most of the "crazy mofos" have no regard for the law to begin with. Why would they care if the law forbids them to have a gun on their person?

I would wager that the overwhelming majority of legal CC users are law abiding citizens. Ones that should be given the right to carry if they so choose.

[boondocksaint]

The burden on the carrier of a concealed weapon varies by state, but I'll boil it down generally.

You can ONLY use your firearm if you or a loved one is threatened with immediate 1) death or 2) great bodily harm. Furthermore, in Michigan, if the assailant is not armed with a firearm, he or she must be within 21 feet of you when you open fire. Otherwise it is assumed that you have the opportunity to flee, which should be your first move.

These burdens change from state to state (Florida is much more lenient, for instance).

I have carried for nearly seven years and have never once felt the need to draw my weapon. And if I'm fortunate, I never will. That does not mean I want the government telling me I can't carry one for my own protection.

Do I think EVERYONE should be able to carry/own a firearm? Hell. No. Do I think that responsible citizens with a clean record and at least basic training should be allowed to carry for their own protection? Yes.

I know there are a lot of loopholes in that statement. What kind of training? Who's to say who's responsible? Etc.

My problem with open carry is that it increases the stress in a given situation. If I'm carrying and you aren't, and I do something wrong, are you going to be frightened to call me on it because I'm obviously armed? Probably, even if I'm a reasonable person, I'm armed.

I wish we could go back to swords.

[Tortfeasor STi]

Originally Posted by fullerton

Most of the "crazy mofos" have no regard for the law to begin with. Why would they care if the law forbids them to have a gun on their person?

I would wager that the overwhelming majority of legal CC users are law abiding citizens. Ones that should be given the right to carry if they so choose.

Walking around NJ and PA I see crazy mofos all the time who aren't packing heat. I am not talking about psycho killers, I am talking about the people who go to baseball games and attack the coach when their son or daughter is not played, the people who throw a fit at a department store when they don't give them store credit, all those irrational irascible people who if they were packing heat when they lost it would kill someone.

[fullerton]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor STi

Walking around NJ and PA I see crazy mofos all the time who aren't packing heat. I am not talking about psycho killers, I am talking about the people who go to baseball games and attack the coach when their son or daughter is not played, the people who throw a fit at a department store when they don't give them store credit, all those irrational irascible people who if they were packing heat when they lost it would kill someone.

What says they would not bring a gun regardless of the law?

My argument is that these unstable people who are willing to break the law and battery someone don't necessarily care wether or not carrying a gun is legal. They'll do it if they want to.

[Tortfeasor STi]

Originally Posted by kessler89

you're living in a armed society, it's called the second amendment, you're still alive aren't you?

And what exactly does the second amendment protect? In DC you can only have a gun if its locked up unloaded with a safety lock on it. In many states you are not allowed to be out in public with a concealed weapon. Currently the Supreme Court is deciding a case that could change the very nature of how the 2nd amendment is interpreted in the US.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Its very ambiguous. The words "keep" and "bear" can be viewed in many ways. And what about the militia aspect, is it really a parenthetical explanation for the right, or a requirement the right is based on? Meaning, can I carry around a sniper rifle where ever I go, just in case congress reenacts the draft so that I can be part of a well organized militia (because currently, we don't have state militias, just national guards); or does it mean I would have to be part of a militia, or the people in the militia, to be allowed to carry "arms?"

The law was drafted back in the day when every white, landowner over the age of 18 was required to be part of the local militia and everyone owned guns to protect their property because local police did not exist. There is no corollary for this in modern society, so interpreting its meaning in modern times is difficult.

[fullerton]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I read this as a way to prevent tyranny from the government. If they take away my right to own a gun, they can easily infringe on the "security of a free state".

[boondocksaint]

This thread is about concealed carry. Let's keep it on that topic. If you must debate the foundation of gun ownership, please open another thread.

[jaydow11]

Originally Posted by fullerton

...If they take away my right to own a gun, they can easily infringe on the "security of a free state".

It was only a matter of time before someone said it. "My right to own a gun". Again, just IMO, this is the problem. The law was created in a time when owning/packing heat actually made sense and was needed.

However, in the greatly more technically advanced world (NA) we live in today, is that "right" still necessary?

I don't think so.

That's why I don't know if I can agree to everyone carring around guns just because people who shouldn't be do....

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

It was only a matter of time before someone said it. "My right to own a gun". Again, just IMO, this is the problem. The law was created in a time when owning/packing heat actually made sense and was needed.

However, in the greatly more technically advanced world (NA) we live in today, is that "right" still necessary?

I don't think so.

Move to Detroit.

[fullerton]

At the same time, laws were created that gave you the right to due process and property. These rights are currently being taken away.

Do you also think they are a thing of the past?

Do you know there will be no time in the future where we would need the right to bear arms? Chances are that once it is taken from us, we will never get it back.

Originally Posted by jaydow11

It was only a matter of time before someone said it. "My right to own a gun". Again, just IMO, this is the problem. The law was created in a time when owning/packing heat actually made sense and was needed.

However, in the greatly more technically advanced world (NA) we live in today, is that "right" still necessary?

I don't think so.

That's why I don't know if I can agree to everyone carring around guns just because people who shouldn't be do....

[1loudsti]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

It was only a matter of time before someone said it. "My right to own a gun". Again, just IMO, this is the problem. The law was created in a time when owning/packing heat actually made sense and was needed.

However, in the greatly more technically advanced world (NA) we live in today, is that "right" still necessary?

I don't think so.

That's why I don't know if I can agree to everyone carring around guns just because people who shouldn't be do....

technically advanced or not do you think you would be revising your statement if for example, your driving cross country and have a car problem and someone makes the decision to take advantage of your situation and pose harm to you or your family i, for one, want it to be legal for me to carry a firearm to protect myself in such a situation or maybe stop it from happening at all...if the thug knows the possibility of me carrying he may never try it in the first place...and if he chooses to a firearm is a much better and quicker deterrent than a cell phone dialing 911

[Nachos Libres]

Concealed carry for the win. I do it and my wife thinks I'm crazy sometimes but I also suspect she feels a little more safe because I do carry.

And I don't carry because I think I'm some bad mother f'er that is going to change the world because I would be a state trooper if I wanted to do that. I carry because it makes me feel safer and because I honestly never know when I will have to pull my weapon. I don't anticipate ever having to do so but I would hate to one day be in a situation where I could have saved my or my familiy's life but I didn't because I didn't carry.

Like others have said criminals already illegally carry and a law against guns isn't going to stop them so I am going to use my legal right to conceal carry in case I ever have to run into them.