[uncle lewie]

Congrats on the 20g and tune. Im usually not a fan of Perrin products but what about their tmic, I mean it looks huge, how does it compare to the APS? Or is the APS the biggest tmic out there?
I can see why you dont want a fmic because of trimming the bumper etc etc.
But still nice numbers.

[kts262]

I'm drooling over that setup. Glad to see it's finally all installed.

Bummer about the heatsoak. Some thermal coaters have a special coating that is meant to keep heat out of a component, like an intercooler. That could be something to look into in addition to more heatshielding. Still with the IC being right over the engine/turbo I'm not sure how much cooler you'll be able to get it.

If you do end up swapping for a FMIC I'll be more than happy to take the TMIC off your hands.

While you could go with meth, I would look at a FMIC first. It's not something you have to refill, don't need to worry about clogged nossles, etc.

[scubadiver424]

Yeah the FMIC is a great option, and I believe well worth it, but another thing you have to account for with the APS 525(ANY FMIC to my knowledge) is your gonna have to modify the bumper in order to accomodate the intercooler, which could be quite tricky and takes some time at the shop.

[JJ18Sniper]

Originally Posted by kts262

I'm drooling over that setup. Glad to see it's finally all installed.

Bummer about the heatsoak. Some thermal coaters have a special coating that is meant to keep heat out of a component, like an intercooler. That could be something to look into in addition to more heatshielding. Still with the IC being right over the engine/turbo I'm not sure how much cooler you'll be able to get it.

If you do end up swapping for a FMIC I'll be more than happy to take the TMIC off your hands.

While you could go with meth, I would look at a FMIC first. It's not something you have to refill, don't need to worry about clogged nossles, etc.

Thanks for the comments Kts. I'm as shocked as you about the heatsoaking.

But honestly... in regards to heatshielding, where did I go wrong?

The turbo is ceramic coated by Deadbolt
OEM heatshield is over it, and that is ceramic coated!
My downpipe is ceramic coated inside and out, AND wrapped with a coating
My APS header/uppipe is coated, AND has the APS heatshield Kit.

Where did I go wrong on heat retention?!

[kts262]

Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper

But honestly... in regards to heatshielding, where did I go wrong?

The turbo is ceramic coated by Deadbolt
OEM heatshield is over it, and that is ceramic coated!
My downpipe is ceramic coated inside and out, AND wrapped with a coating
My APS header/uppipe is coated, AND has the APS heatshield Kit.

Where did I go wrong on heat retention?!

Er brainfart. I haven't been getting much sleep recently.

With all of that you're pretty much out of luck I guess. Could try some heatshielding around the IC itself between it and everything else, but again probably not much benefit for the cost/time. Same with coating the IC with a thermal protectant.

Like you are thinking the best bet is probably to move to a FMIC to remove the heatsoak. In the end the tiny bit of lag will probably be worth the reduced heatsoak and extra power.

[turbowrx06]

Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper

Thanks for the comments Kts. I'm as shocked as you about the heatsoaking.

But honestly... in regards to heatshielding, where did I go wrong?

The turbo is ceramic coated by Deadbolt
OEM heatshield is over it, and that is ceramic coated!
My downpipe is ceramic coated inside and out, AND wrapped with a coating
My APS header/uppipe is coated, AND has the APS heatshield Kit.

Where did I go wrong on heat retention?!

hey man, i couldnt tell you what the problem is, but im sure that it would be much worse if you didnt have all of that. Also from what i have heard, Rob has told me that is extremly difficult to break 300whp on his dyno with a tmic, so your looking reall good imo. I want a ride in it maybe tomm. Sux im facing the same situation as you, the tmic really limited me with my tune. Well I hope everything works out.

mark

[Chris05STi]

John,

Happy that the tune went well (not where you would like it) and the install was up to AutoMaster's taste. Kiwi Ian and I are here if you ever need anything else in the future. As for the tune, and that downward curve.....I would believe this: APS TMIC should be good for what 360'ish, 375'ish wtq? Your around that area....and being that you have the 3" inlet on that 20g, the compression and flow is so great, that the TMIC can only handle so much after a certain RPM. Being that it is smaller than a FMIC, the volume it holds is great, until you hit that 5500-5700rpm range, and then after that, it just can't handle the flow. Sucks, but I would highly suggest you go with a FMIC first. Then Meth Injection. 2 reasons: If you go with a FMIC first, you won't have to drill that brand new TMIC for a meth nozzle. Therefore you could sell it closer to the value you paid vs. the APS TMIC with a hole and a nozzle in it for meth. 2nd reason, with the FMIC, you may have some more lag, therefore with the METH, you will bring that down, and most likely barely notice it at all. And the benifits of 50/50 Meth Injection will help the car cool down dramatically, run cleaner, and clean out the internals of the engine....I believe thats your best bet....so send Santa a letter, and hope theres some goodies under the tree . But if you ever need anything, let me know, Kiwi Ian and I will be there for yah buddy.

[WolfPlayer]

^^^ Chris makes some good points above. However, I'd like to see some logs. My main interest is that it drops SO dramatically. To me, that is weird - very weird.

MAF V should tell a lot. I'd also like to see the dynamic advance curve, the knock learning table, boost curve, etc. Contact me via PM/IM and we can discuss the details. It could be the TMIC. However, I doubt it. Plenty of 20Gs on the stock TMIC and running very nice power with no dropoff like that. The APS TMIC can handle more.

t

[Chris05STi]

Thats what I was thinking. Now, it may just be that his car is a beast and it is really pushing the TMIC to its limits.......but I was wondering if there is a fuel issue, injector duty cycle maxed out?, maybe the flow of the fuel/air? I dunno, just throwing somethings out there.....vaccum leak somewhere possibley?

[JJ18Sniper]

Originally Posted by Chris05STi

Thats what I was thinking. Now, it may just be that his car is a beast and it is really pushing the TMIC to its limits.......but I was wondering if there is a fuel issue, injector duty cycle maxed out?, maybe the flow of the fuel/air? I dunno, just throwing somethings out there.....vaccum leak somewhere possibley?

I was told the injectors were at the 75-80% range. Could I possibly have a "sticky/stuck" injector?

[RacerXS]

Originally Posted by RacerXS

Start making plans for the FMIC & Meth now, hear me now.....believe me later.

I hate to quote myself.....but.

I think the numbers are not bad at all considering what you have going on with the heat soak issues.
Meth and/or FMIC will bring those #'s up considerably.

Your setup looks awesome BTW!

[JJ18Sniper]

Originally Posted by RacerXS

I hate to quote myself.....but.

I think the numbers are not bad at all considering what you have going on with the heat soak issues.
Meth and/or FMIC will bring those #'s up considerably.

Your setup looks awesome BTW!

I hate to say it but your probably right.


Another thing that I have been pondering... is that fact that when tuning they are simulating a high rate of speed. I am not sure if that fan was sufficient in cooling the intercooler. It wasn't a direct flow onto my top mount, it was a generic fan. Something that would have been sealed directly would have been much more suitable for cooling. I'm wondering if the top mount was just robbed of air to cool with.

[SubySat]

NICE NUMBERS! TMIC are rough. I have seen 2-3 different ones on there dyno when Rob was tuning and its amazing the heat soak difference. Some get hotter quicker then others. And others stay considerably cool. I already have meth so I am saving for a FMIC.

[RacerXS]

Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper

Another thing that I have been pondering... is that fact that when tuning they are simulating a high rate of speed. I am not sure if that fan was sufficient in cooling the intercooler. It wasn't a direct flow onto my top mount, it was a generic fan. Something that would have been sealed directly would have been much more suitable for cooling. I'm wondering if the top mount was just robbed of air to cool with.

Yes, ^^^^^ this is definitely true, Especially in winter you could get away with a more agressive tune. But come summer, and sitting in traffic.....or the line waiting for your run @ e-town, you will have issues......the kind that pull timing or worst case, make holes in pistons.
You need to cool that charge down! Way I see it, you have gone this far....

[Majin]

Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper

I hate to say it but your probably right.


Another thing that I have been pondering... is that fact that when tuning they are simulating a high rate of speed. I am not sure if that fan was sufficient in cooling the intercooler. It wasn't a direct flow onto my top mount, it was a generic fan. Something that would have been sealed directly would have been much more suitable for cooling. I'm wondering if the top mount was just robbed of air to cool with.

this is why most tuners run a road tune after the dyno tune - you can squeeze out more power after the initial tune when you can get 80 mph air going through your IC at 80 mph on the speedometer versus 20 mph air at 80 mph on the speedometer on the dyno.