[esemes]

The journey to wisdom
(and from.........)






(groundrules of this thread)


this thread is merely MY factual summary of the dealings with my 2005 sti.
Please do not misconstrue this as a "gang up on SS/SOG" thread, nor as me
complaining or demanding actions to be taken otherwise.

I am authoring this to set the record straight, and officially turn the page
on a chapter in MY life. nothing more, nothing less.

that said..........



(setting the scene)

back in march 2005, after having local displeasure with an all-out aps upgrade.....


(begins narrative)

I was looking to find someone (anyone) whom could take my STI to the next
level, and do a big turbo upgrade/swap with certain success.

After being tipped off that there's a guy in Georgia (some 8 hours north of
me), I decided to give a call to Scott Siegel at Gwinnett (SS @ SOG).
He seemed to be very knowledgeable on the goals I had in mind, and told me he could
certainly do the upgrade, and I would receive great results. SS told me he
had done 20G's before, and that they netted about 380WHP (told me to expect
anywhere from 360 to 380, depending on how aggressive he left the tune). There was
no doubt this guy has done what im after, many times over.

I had told SS about my troubles in Florida, and about the failures of using
the APS SR55 as the heartbeat of my setup. The following day SS and I
talked again, and after I gave him last choice on the turbo (APS SR55 or
20G), he chose the SR55. It was a two-fold decision; 1.) He was going to
place a stocking order with APS, and wanted to see how great the new SR55
would be 2.) He had troubles with the SR50 and never had success with it.
SS promised me success and claimed about 400whp would not be a problem for
this setup, given my mods. "The turbo is just a turbo."

When I arrived at SOG, I was greeted by SS and several others. They all
remarked about the condition of my car (I had spent the past hour, at the
motel room, in the cold morning darkness, detailing the entire outside of
the car). I figured I was in good hands, as the parts were there and
everything seemed to go as planned. The following evening SS contacted me
and had great things to say about my car "it was faa-ast". Still, good
news, and encouraging to say the least.

The following morning (day two in GA), I met SS at the dealership and things
were not "so good" anymore. It seems the "fast" car is now not capable of
controlling boost. No matter what they did, no matter how they set it up,
it crept. I was further discouraged by SOG as the mechanics then told me
that they "never have had success" with any of the non-oem turbos. I was also
told (same source) that they do not know why anyone keeps trying to do
this...... I am LESS than encouraged at this point, and ready to find a
tall ledge somewhere.

After SS leaves SOG (personal business), and decides to tune another's car
whilst doing such, I begin to realize this will never work, and that the
mechanics are not joking with me. Hours pass, and SS returns to have
nothing further to do with my car. I MUST leave out now (as we planned our
trip with no extra days), and have a car that's in pieces and undriveable
(sounds familiar?). For the record, I have no idea on what happened, how to
fix it, or what to do next. Regret sets in, yet again.

I did prepay for all the APS turbo and setup (some $5500+) to help SS have
"a better month". I have always tried to help him with things.

APS agrees to offer a reimbursement for a rental car, and instead, SOG
lends me a customer loaner to drive back in. I expected to be back in about
two weeks, after APS arrives there to personally fix the boost creep issues.
The story continues with APS not being able to fix the turbo, and not
leaving me with an operational car. Oh yeah, some 'coolant testing' was
done on my car to try and make some 10% gains in power, but it never worked
either. I guess I did not pay for that though... I did also pay for an oil
change.

Again, I am less than encouraged at this point, and do not know what to do.
I am making car payments on a near-new 05 STi, and driving a legacy wagon. I
appreciate having the loaner to drive, but never would have agreed to any of
this if there was a question as to whether this swap would work.... SS
asked me if I wanted to sell my stock turbo, and after a followup phone call,
i agreed to sell it. SS promised me (exactly stated) he wouldnt leave me without
turbo, that works right...........Regret, volume IIa.

I decide to go with a Deadbolt 20G instead, since SS had done a lot of them
in the past, and made great numbers (better than the SR55 anyway). It seems
they were in short supply (and hi demand) so I had to wait, and wait, and
wait! I was worried about the possibility of boost creep with the new
turbo, and to my shock it was ordered and installed with the internal gate
anyway. After all, I had plenty of time to read up on others stories, and
even Deadbolt's website shows that they highly recommend an external gate
when using the SZ49. Oh yeah, in being greedy, I decided to go with the
sz49, as it was almost the same exact turbo that SS had done plenty of
installs on already (only internal changes). These SZ49 had terminal boost
creep. As stated by the manufacturer's website (exactly). With my luck,
I'd have been more shocked if it DIDN'T creep. Regret 101

The result is more downtime. A LOT more... the turbo has to go BACK to
Deadbolt for a weld job (no one else can do this), and an external
waste-gate setup needed to be afforded. I decided to finally divorce myself
from the APS 3.5" TBE and since the dumptube was going to be plumbed back
into the downpipe, I knew it was a permanent mod; I'd be stuck with
the ultra-aggressive 3.5" TBE and its roar.... (I was over it, by this
point, as it seemed to make no more power than a catted 3" TBE would).

I don't know how long my car sat at Top Speed, waiting for them to fabricate
the dumptube re-circ, and then have all the parts coated. Eventually I was
told Top Speed was welding this together, and that the parts did not need
coating, since they were a mild steel already (I never knew anything about
any of this). I am just going along with all of it, as my car had been in
Georgia for 14 weeks by now.

In preparations for having the car done, I asked SS to have the oil changed
again (for the 2nd time), and to have the whole car detailed inside and out
(I had received several emails from those that stopped by SOG and told me
my car looked like it was abandoned, it had so much crust on it....).
I PM'd SS several times about this as well, since I could not bear to see
her look like that when I arrived to pick her up.

About the third week of June I got the call that the car was going on the
dyno, and that boost creep was solved. There was an issue with external
wastegate not having the right spring, so another new spring was ordered (I
believe it went from a 1 bar spring to a .4 bar spring). This was never
addressed again, but I do not know why the correct spring was not sent in
the EWG. Oh yeah, something to do with the Apexi AVCR not working right, so
they used a lighter spring , only to get some of the AVCR to work right (but
the spring was never changed back).

I remember bugging SS to give me a firm date for pickup, as I had a
co-pilot that only had a limited amount of free time to offer me for helping
to bring the car back home. We agreed to a date, and knew it was a
splash-n-go deal, with Joe (my co-pilot) actually having to be back to work
that same night @ midnight. I told SS to remember the detail, and to add
the cost to my invoice (I knew they had done a lot of labor for me, and know
it stressed the relations between the mechanics and the tuners).

When we arrived at SOG at 7:20 am, we were met by the service writers, and a
few mechanics only. This gave Joe and I a chance to walk back and check out
how the car looked. To my horror, she sat still attached to the dyno (of
which Joe and I removed it and torqued my wheels ourselves), with awful
crust-like film on the car, my wheels laying flat on the ground with plywood
on top of two of the good sides (to prop up the dyno fan). I actually felt
sick right then and there. SS did a few more dyno pulls (Why , do not know,
as it made several of the guys there quite angry and pissed off).
Afterwards, we (Joe and I) put the wheels back on, and got ready for a quick
road run, to verify all was still good.

To my further horror, I found the inside of the car was a reflection to that
of the outside. There were empty bottles, cups, food wrappers under the
seats, ink pens(2) on the floor, and all kinds of personal affects strewn on
the back seat and passenger seat. I understand that some of this is a
necessity of doing tuning, but to have my car sitting with garbage in it,
uncleaned, and looking worse than I have ever seen it, was deplorable. I did
not show up unannounced or unplanned. regret, furthermore....

I figured that as long as it ran like the online posted dyno showed, I could
live with awful condition of the car for now. WE did not have time for them
to do a full impromptu detail on a Saturday morning, the day of our arrival/departure,
and with no prior scheduling done.... to my further dismay, the car did NOT
run as it showed on the dyno plot. It was wrong, way wrong; and had a huge
hesitation in it. I did not feel it till I drove it and actually floored
the car. It made no power under about 5100rpm, and bucked, kicked, and
fought me all the thru the RPMS to get there. It didnt seem as bad once you
were in 4th gear, also, btw.

SS told me this is common, and he made a few phone calls to try and solve it
(a little too late, IMO). It seems it is not cureable. I am told
everyone's 20G/SZ does this and that most just keep quiet about it. I was
floored to hear this, and wondered why I was not pre-warned that my car
would be awful. I was told that the stutter did not appear till I got
there. To date, I do not know if that was untended to be a joke or not.

In having to leave for home, I had little options but to pay the invoice
(some 7500+) and drive my filthy, trashy (there was some strange blu-ish
fluid that appeared to have burst out of both radiator caps, spewed all
over the motor, hood liner, pulleys, splash shield, headers, suspension,
radiator, backside of the FMIC...everywhere), bogging-stuttering car home.
I was devastated and embarrassed beyond belief, and drove home with my tail
between my legs. I thought that maybe I just needed to learn how to drive
the car right, and maybe it was me, not the tune that was out of wack.

After the drive home (which was great, as on the highway you keep the revs
up high enough, in a high enough gear that the stumble is not a factor), I
knew this had to be fixed. I received several calls from SS asking how
things were, and once I finally decided on what I wanted, I answered. In
trying to still help him out, I agreed to not post up on the negatives of
the tune/setup, and SS agreed to fly down to my house to fix it. I spent
the following day just cleaning the car, in efforts to at least make it look
good (sometimes I feel a clean car actually runs better...lol).

I have given SS the proceeds of the Perrin EBCS I had, and the proceeds from
the APS 70mm intake I had shipped to him (nearly 400$ on my end) for airfare
to come here and fix my car. He assured me it would be fixed, and promised
me he would not leave Florida until it was. We also agreed that if I had a
smaller turbo (like the 20G he had done so many times over) I would have
even better results. In trying to make the best of my situation, I got a
20G, sent it to deadbolt for the weld, paid to express ship it back, have it
installed, and was ready for the SS visitation. (some 2000+) I also offered
the main bedroom in my house, and even bought a whole new bed set since SS
mentioned being allergic to pets. I kept the master bedroom closed off
after cleaning, and kept the room pet-hair free (as much as I could). Why
mention all of this??? Just to show that I tried to do everything I could for him
on this, since he promised me success. (several times over and over)

SS arrived down here and spent a little time the first day getting the turbo
setup with tuning. The second day he spent a great deal of time tuning, and
even called me to tell me he cured the rich stumble. I was thrilled beyond
thrilled. After a quick drive, I again was looking for the nearest ledge to
take a dive off of. The stumble felt worse to me, and hit even sooner (and
the car jerked and spat like nuts!). SS proceeded to do many, many other
tunes, and the evenings were filled up with all the other business he got
down here, instead of mine. The night he was going to leave he tried
another thing on my car, but it made no improvements at all. ($145 part)

SS told me there was no cure for the car, and that it must be an ecutek
solved scenario. My car couldnt be made right now, and failure set in.
I then told SS that I give up on this car, as it cannot be made right,
and that I have changed my mind on what I wanted from him. enough is enough
and i have been tortured by failure long enough.

I now wanted SS to go back to GA and negotiate getting me into a new STi.
All I wanted was fair market value for my car, and was willing to furnish
all the OEM parts to go with it. About a week later, I gave up and called
SOG direct, and was told by the sales manager that they would offer me 18K
or 19K for my STi (8K miles on it). This is absurd, and although SS told me
they would call and offer more, I never received a call back from anyone.

After over 3 months of having NO decent car, I decided it was best to handle this
myself. I had several that wanted the car, and had great confidence they
could get it running right. I thought about trying to go elsewhere, but
having spent nearly $16,000.00 with SS efforts and promises, enough was
enough. I struck a deal with staticXmotorsports, and they flew down and
drove home in the car (with the 20G on it, and about 15-17 hours of SS
tuning).

I was relieved to take possession of my 2006 STi on august 15, and have
NEVER looked back since.

I have learned a wealth of things about judgement, personal relations, and
turbos/tuning in the past three months, and if I had my druthers, I would've
never leave Florida in the first place. Nothing else good can be said of all of this, for me,
except that it is over now. I have put this behind me and have finally
decided to tell the story for you all. Although I do not feel I was treated
right in the end, I do feel satisfied that I made the best of the situation,
relying on no others....

I hold no ill will to SS or SOG now, but feel that they did not do right by
me. I have given enough time and funds to try and get this to change, and
it never did. I wish them the best in their future and hope they get their
tuning issues resolved amicably with others.

furthermore......

i apologize to you all for not being outright about this experience, as i was always hoping it would get righted, and therefor i wouldnt need to shed any potentially negative light. I was waiting for godot on that though, as that obviously never happened.

i also apologize to SS for any grief i have caused him. I tried to do right, and be as flexible of a customer that i could be. i also promoted him as much as i could, and oftentimes went out of my way to make things right (from my side). i did the best i could to hold up my end of things. i hope you understand that and can agree.

bottom line; i have a most beautiful 2006 in my garage that needs my attention now. Having gone thru all of this (and then some), i now more know what to do (and what NOT to do). project hindsight06 is about to go into full swing, and i can't wait.

hope you all enjoy your sti's and have success in your aftermarket endevours. please do take a page from my experience and apply it however you can. we learn from each other's failures and success, and i can only hope you will (from mine), too.


stay tuned....

ese

past::



present AND future::

[AndrewSS]

that sounds like a nightmare dude... atleast you learned something. So what is your plan with the 06?

[2theMAX]

Wow. You have alot of patience that is for sure. It is unbelievable what you went through. A learning experience is putting you're adventure lightly. I'm glad everything worked out. I know alot of us were right there with you in your experiences and although I haven't spoken to you personally, I appreciate you spilling the beans and allowing us to learn from what you have went through as well. Good luck with you're 06.

[Joey-D]

I'm glad that ese took me on this bumpy ride with him. Although it did not work out I have personally learned a lot about our cars, and what to do and what not to do. We met a lot of enthusiasts around FL and GA. This was a tough learning experience and although I had little inputs to give it was hard to watch this unfold because I was always expecting the best, only to be disappointed. By ese telling his story I hope other will learn from this and not blindly follow in these steps.

Ese, glad you have the 06 it's been a while since you've had a worry free night and now it looks even better than the 05!!!

[STiLLWILL]

ESE--

I will be the first to come here and say that I applaud you for your infinite patience in the whole process of literally getting nowhere. Trust me, I've been there, and my patience is like yours....so abundant, that it's sickening. From wrong orders, to services to be completed on parts that I've paid for that are ultimately NOT completed, not to mention investments in shipping alone. It's all one big lesson learned, and like you again, I've learned to put things like this in the past. Again, I applaud you for this.

I am sorry that you had nothing but bad luck with your '05, but I'm confident that your '06 will be smooth sailing....especially coming from a catastrophic experience with aftermarket parts and tuning on your '05.

Now, this is the part where I voice my opinion BASED ON THE FACTS YOU HAVE PRESENTED TO US ALL....

I find it simply ridiculous that your car could not be completed thoroughly to YOUR LEVEL OF SATISFACTION given the long span of time it was at SOG. Why do I say this?..... from MY OWN experience...

I rolled down to Harman Motive(4 hours south of home), with PE850's, an Ultimate Racing EWG uppipe, a TiAL 44mm wastegate(standard spring), and a Helix catless DP in my back seat. My Deadbolt SZ55 and my Gruppe-s V2 header(EGT bung welded by HM) sat at Harman Motive's shop awaiting my arrival. All the parts listed were installed by Harman.

-I, along with a friend who has an STi, arrived at Harman at 9:00am, Dan Harman(owner/tuner) arrived at 10am(opening hour of HM). I was getting my parts installed and tuned, while my friend was getting his STi outfitted with a full TBE, header, and a tune as well----we booked HM for the whole day for the most part.

-My car and my buddy's car were both raised on lifts by 10:30am for all the parts to be installed.

-11:00am, Dan breakes the tape on the box from Deadbolt that carried my SZ55. It came with the internal gate UNWELDED. Dan, joking around, kept asking me "you SURE you want me to weld the gate shut dude?!?! I can't reverse this!! U SURE!?!?!"(LOL). By 11:20(ish), my SZ55's internal gate was welded shut, right then and there.

-It should be noted that HM is currently a two man operation when it comes to installs(Dan and Chris).

-My friend's STi was done by 5pm and strapped to the dyno. He was ProTuned by Dan and was finished by 6:30pm--flawless tune, road tested and everything.

-Installs on my car were completed by 7pm, and immediately strapped to the dyno. It should also be noted that my car was the first car running an "aggressive set up" to be ProTuned by Harman----why do I mention this? Well, unlike my friend's STi, Dan had no "base map" to work FROM. That's right, Dan forwarned me that it would take a while since he had to start from scratch with tuning.

-3 hours later, my car is DONE. Running smoothly, idling like silk, and running strong as ever. By 10:30pm, Dan and I were rolling back to the shop from a road test.

...from 10:30am to 10:30pm Harman was able to complete installs and complete flawless tunes for TWO cars.

-1 trackday(3 20 minute sessions in 110 degree heat) later, my car is running the same as when it rolled out of Harman Motive, strong as hell. No problems to report whatsoever. My friend's STi dually noted as well.


This is no way is written with the intentions of bashing the integrity SS/SOG, so please try to see where I'm getting at. Again, this is my opinion based on what ESE has presented. I do take into consideration that you(ESE) were running an AVCR in your car as opposed to my Hallman Pro MBC in my STi, so I can understand a little more time in fine tuning that gizmo, but I couldn't see it as being a major setback at all. You also had more fabrication done(EWG dumptube routed to DP), so more time is VERY understandable. My point is in regards to actually TUNING the car when all the parts are on, and ready to run. I really don't think it would be asking much to have a DECENT TUNE when the tuner has your car for 14+ weeks...and to find out the customer(ESE), was really unhappy with the state of the tune in the end, isn't something that ANYONE could "live with." Ultimately blaming it on a "flaw" on a tried and true engine management(EcuTek) is unacceptable IMO. But then again, that's just IMO.


ESE,

You have paid your dues AND SOME to this community of STi owners. I would like to thank you for all your willingness to keep us updated on problems/findings regarding your '05 project. Trust me, if we accounted for ALL the lurkers who viewed you project '05 thread mutliple times, it would probably be at page 100 by now. I'm sure project '06 will be just as informative, and filled with nothing but posts of success. You live and learn, but sometimes learning can be the biggest PITA ever---and your patience has paid off wonderfully.

Thank you ESE.

[ninjaboy76]

Esemes, your journey through the tuning world sounds like it was a nightmare. Hopefully things will go better for you with the 06. I know you apologized to us all, but I wish that you would have come forth with this information a lot earlier. A lot of people on here were watching your project with great anticipation. We were also led to believe that SS was some kind of a super tuning guru for the STi. Instead it turns out that he is most likely a fraud. There is no telling as to what extent the damage could be to other peoples cars who have been tuned by him. In the end we were all left a little confused as to why you went through three turbos and then ended up selling the '05 to get an '06. I guess we finally know the truth. Honestly I can't blame you for wanting to be rid of the 05 after an experience like that. Your car was violated and should not have been treated like the SOG beater. Good luck in the future and we hope to see your 06 upgraded in the near future.

[Datadatum]

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

[Chris05STi]

Wow, after reading all those replies and your intial post ESE, I can almost just sample of what you prob went through. As I was sitting here in my seat reading this, I could not believe how patient you were, and nice you were with SS. I know most people would have done alot worst, but you handled it very maturely and nicely. I just hope you can really kick ass with your '06, and RIP your '05.........silence.........atleast you will not have to go through that again. Just one thing I am wondering about, I would, and I think others would as well, like to hear from SS about this experience, and see what he has to say. I am not implementing anything negative to SS, but just curious to hear what he would have to say about what has happened. I guess you can call it closure, but ESE, I can't wait to see what plans you have for the '06. Hope all is well. Peace.

[javasti]

Wow Scott (esemes).. I didn't know it was that bad of an experience

[bluestreak]

I'm sure Scott would like to put this in the past as much as ESE.

Glad to see you are enjoying the new addition to the family! Hopefully this one doesn't suffer from so much cholic! ;-)

[shftat6]

Ese,
I had always noticed how tight lipped you were about that whole fiasco (can't come up with a more fitting term). I have to applaud you for that and for your seemingly never-ending patience. You maintained your composure long after most of us would have gone postal. I mean $16 freakin' grand on something that wouldn't work right. $16 freakin' grand!!!! My wife would have kicked me out if I blew half of that with nothing to show (and she is a very forgiving woman).

You flew him back to FL, bought a new bed (not cheap), with still no results. I mean, Ese, I just don't know how you kept it together. And then insult to injury with their trade-in price. My fingers are just shaking as I type with all that took place. I am much like yourself, I try to go out of my way to accomodate people doing work for me. I try to prep and make things as easy as I can. Whether I am leaving cold drinks for the trash guys or offering food/drinks for the guys painting my house or putting in our kitchen counters. The least they could have done after you dropped all of that coin was to work you into an '06 with a fair trade-in on your '05.

Words cannot describe how I am feeling, it is just not right what happened to you, just not right.

-Bill

[05SilverSTI]

all i can say is wow. i'm happy to see you have a new car and a new beginning. i will be watching your progress with the 06 just as i followed the 05. good luck with everything.

[Siegel Racing]

I will reply when I get to work, about an hour or so.

The "stumble" was a rich stutter, fairly common to MAF based large FMIC setups.

The MAF is in front of the turbo, when you floor it, the turbo pulls LOTS of air past the MAF.

The ECU "sees" the huge amount of air and responds with a huge amount of fuel, immediately.

With a HUGE FMIC the turbo has to compress ALL the piping to the FMIC, the end-tanks on the FMIC, the 2+ foot wide core of the FMIC, and all the piping back to the throttle body.

Way back when the MAF saw the air, and the ECU started spraying fuel, despit having the fuel maps as lean as possible, the car often dips under 9.8:1 afr, at which point it stumbles.

When the air finally reaches the motor it pops back up over 10:1 and the car takes off like a rocket.

MANY tuners have fought with this. Solutions include MAF in the charge pipe, right before the thottle body, so the ECU doesn't see it until it goes into the motor. This works well, but you can't make much power without pushing the MAF voltage to 5.0 volts (as high as it can go).

Or you can go to a MAP (pressure) based engine management, like the UTEC or XEDE. The MAP sensor is in the red intake manifold (AFTER the throttle body) so it "sees" the air as it goes into the motor.

esemes's car is now owned by StaticX, who brought it to Topspeed, who added a MAP based Meth Injection, which allows the MAF based Ecutek to be set lean all the way to the top, and make up for the fuel with the MAP based Meth. This is something that none of us knew would work, but it does work beautifully.

The $150 part he mentions was requested by Ecutek directly. They were working to fix the rich stutter.

esemes knew full well that the car was still on the dyno that Thursday night.

I had always inteded to do a full detail on the car before returning it. The reason I wasn't there at 7:20 in the morning was that I had been there until near midnight the night before working on the car on the dyno. It is a 45 minute trip home and back, so I got home at 1 or so, got 4 hours of sleep, woke, showered and came back.

I do not remember ANYTHING about being told that they had to leave at noon, I thought I had the whole day to get the car off the dyno, check it on the street and get it detailed. The full detail was offered free and declined. If I was warned about the early departure and forgot, I am sorry.

I am also sorry about the sports bar wrappers. I spent more than one 10+ hour day doing NOTHING but tuning that car. I started early in the morning and went all day...

When I came to Florida Ben from Ecutek was in England, working on the rich stutter. I thought that between us we could certainly get it fixed. I spent 3 hours on the car the first night. 12-14 hours on it the next day, and then another 4 or so the last night. At ZERO charge.

I am sorry that this car turned out the way it did. I did my best on it. I probably had 60+ hours in the 7 (yes SEVEN) turbo installs.

The SR55 was in and out 5 times (with the APS engineer HERE working on it). Deadbolt told me that the SZ49 should work fine on the internal gate, there were plenty that had and I was trying to save esemes the $800+ of UP and EWG. It crept even with the wastegate flapper disconnected. Then the welded SZ49 and EWG was tried. I believe we got it all welded and added the AVC-R that Tuesday. I spent 8 hours Wednesday fighting with a mis-installed AVC-R, and finally rerouted it and got it working better Thursday morning, then went long into the night on the dyno with esemes KNOWING it was on the dyno Thursday night...

SS

[Siegel Racing]

Tip-in enrichment was set to ZERO all the way through the table.

Ecutek had thoughts that there was a hidden Boost-Error Fuel Enrichment (like there is in the WRX) so with the AVC-R controlling boost we set the desired boost to 1 psi.

SS

[Siegel Racing]

More in an hour...

Please allow me to assure everybody that I am very humble with my relatively recent career of tuning street cars - I talk at LENGTH with tuners that I respect, picking their brains for things to make these street cars run better.

This includes HOURS with of Doug from Topspeed, Clark from Kingpin, Jeff Perrin, Jarrod from PDX, Shiv, Ben from Ecutek, Mervyn from Ecutek, Ed from Balanced and Sunbelt, etc. They have all been HUGELY helpful. I thank them all for info that they have given to help make customers cars run better. I hope that I have been able to give something back to some of them in our discussions...

I have PERSONAL (the dealership does NOT pay for it) phone bills of hundreds of dollars of discussions with tuners I respect world-wide.

SS