[Ben]

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he just did it for looks and left the middle wide open. I could be mistaken, but I don't see anything filling the middle gap.

If you leave it open, you might as well use a v-limited or other better looking front "spoiler" rather than the front splitter. The whole idea of the front splitter is it creates MUCH more downforce, but if you leave the middle open, it's useless.

Then again, if he used something that's flat black, maybe I just don't see it...it's very hard to tell in that pic.

[Nachos Libres]

Nice splitter, haven't seen that one before.

[aspensti05]

What about hacking up a V-limited repli?

[aspensti05]

Originally Posted by esemes

here's one done (if it helps)

That car/splitter looks gross!

[Ben]

The mirrors don't look bad either.





The canards look a bit ricey, but every bit of downforce at this point helps.





They need to update their website with the newer body styles though. Their products look MUCH better on the 04-05 and 06 body styles.

And of course, their wide body kit is sick...but it's really expensive:

[Ben]

Originally Posted by aspensti05

That car/splitter looks gross!

I agree, the splitter on that car looks nasty. It's mostly the car though, the splitter itself looks pretty nice. (Just look at the picture of it above).

[aspensti05]

Originally Posted by Ben

The canards look a bit ricey, but every bit of downforce at this point helps.

Ben how would you even know if the splitter and/or canards are helping or hurting downforce? Are you putting your car in a wind tunnel?

If not you could inadvertently be creating lift, or too much drag vs downforce gained.

If you are just randomly sticking it on there its pure show and no go...

[Nachos Libres]

Man, I've always loved that kit on the red WRX or STi, whatever it is.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by aspensti05

Ben how would you even know if the splitter and/or canards are helping or hurting downforce? Are you putting your car in a wind tunnel?

If not you could inadvertently be creating lift, or too much drag vs downforce gained.

If you are just randomly sticking it on there its pure show and no go...

After one lap on the track, it will be immediately obvious. I could feel a HUGE difference with the wing, and I'll do the same kind of testing with the front splitter. Did I wind tunnel test the C-West wing myself? No. But I know that before the wing went on, 135 MPH around turn 8 at willow springs was a bit iffy, and with the wing, 145 mph was completely stable. As far as lap times go, we saw a 0.9 to 1 second difference from just the wing alone. Why does it make such a big difference? After 70 mph everything is about aero, and with the exception of one turn, there is nowhere on that track where the car is going less than 70 mph.

As for "just throwing it on," almost every race car you will ever see has an identical style front splitter. Designing a wing is difficult (and that's why I chose C-West, because it IS wind tunnel tested) however, front splitters are much easier. As long as you create a thin tray in the front, air pushes down on it and creates downforce. It's pretty much impossible to create a front splitter of this style that creates lift (unless of course, you put this one on and left the gap in the middle unfilled ). APR has tested the front splitter extensively, and it DOES create a significant amount of downforce, but I won't tell you one way or another until I test it myself.

P.S. Not that I really mind these little conversations, but why is it that every time you post in my thread you are questioning or otherwise trying to trash my mods? I don't come in your member's journal and talk **** about your upgraded turbo or your dyno numbers because it doesn't concern me. I care about weight savings, aero, suspension, and brakes, whereas you are more of a horsepower guy. I don't ever come in your member's journal and tell you that what you're doing to your car is stupid or unnecessary, so why do you continually do that to me? You are the ONLY person that ever does this, that's the only reason that I ask.

[esemes]

Originally Posted by Ben

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he just did it for looks and left the middle wide open. I could be mistaken, but I don't see anything filling the middle gap.

If you leave it open, you might as well use a v-limited or other better looking front "spoiler" rather than the front splitter. The whole idea of the front splitter is it creates MUCH more downforce, but if you leave the middle open, it's useless.

Then again, if he used something that's flat black, maybe I just don't see it...it's very hard to tell in that pic.

oh; i missed the point. i thought you were unsure if a lip would work w/ oem canards....

here's another pic (it does look wide open)


so, why not a spec C (aka v-limited) piece???

[Ben]

Originally Posted by esemes

oh; i missed the point. i thought you were unsure if a lip would work w/ oem canards....

here's another pic (it does look wide open)


so, why not a spec C (aka v-limited) piece???

The v-limited under spoiler doesn't create enough downforce. It looks beautiful, and it's good for about 30-35% more downforce in the front, but we need 3 or 4 times what the v-limited offers in terms of downforce. The v-limited only comes out about an inch to an inch and a half, and we need more like a 3-4 inch tray to suck the front of the car to the ground. Basically, we're just trying to balance the front end of the car now that rear end has over 100% more downforce than stock. With the air conditioning and front bumper beam removed and the front splitter installed, we should see a very noticable improvement in turn-in and the car should be very well balanced/neutral again.

What we noticed after installing the wing, besides a MAJOR increase in stability, was that the rear end was so planted that it didn't rotate like it did before. The rear end feels amazing, so rather than trying to induce oversteer and artificially make the rear end rotate (make the rear end "loose"), we want to balance the front end and make it more efficient. The car is still very neutral as-is, and compared to stock it has virtually no understeer, but compared to the previous track day, it has just the slightest tendency to push in certain situations. This front splitter should eliminate that and we're expecting another half a second with the added front downforce. It should also reduce the front tire wear slightly.

[aspensti05]

Originally Posted by Ben

P.S. Not that I really mind these little conversations, but why is it that every time you post in my thread you are questioning or otherwise trying to trash my mods?

Sorry if questions are seen as "trash talk." They aren't meant to be. Please post your thoughts in my journal and ask any questions you have. You might think I'm a "horsepower guy" but you obviously don't know me, the mods that are going on once they arrive for the 2006 track season, or my track history. While I don't feel I am ready to compete yet, I enjoy a well sorted car for DE as much as you. Since my car is for the moment a dual purpose car, getting all silly with the weight reduction isn't my thing, it doesn't do much for the value of the car either. Instead I chose to make up for it with some added power.

You have what could be called a "race" car, yet it's still a street car and it doesn't fit into any real racing category and even if it did, it wouldn't be competitive as the amount of mods would push it into a category that the STi couldn't be a competitor in.

That said I ask questions because I don't understand many of the things you do. I ask questions to find out more info or reasons why. Don't forget, you are the owner of this site and have a highly modded car. That comes with responsibility. Many people look up to you and look to you for advice. When you promote a product , but don't back it up with any real information, it is misleading. I ask questions to inform myself and others.

Again I'm sorry if the above text or any of the questions I've asked come across the wrong way. I know it's impossible to get tone, body language and scarcasm over text on a forum. Please know that isn't my intention. If this bothers you I can PM you questions/comments in the future.

[Ben]

Thanks for the explanation. You are right, it's very hard to express tone, body language, and sarcasm on the internet, and I was probably misinterpreting your questions.

I have never once promoted a product and not backed it up with real information though . You never even gave me a chance today. I told you that APR was going to send the stuff on Friday and before I even get a chance to put it on the car and let you know what my impressions were you started bombarding me with things like:

"its pure show and no go..."
"that splitter looks gross "

You can see why I might get the wrong impression right? Those kinds of comments don't make me think you're curious or asking questions at all.

Originally Posted by aspensti05

You have what could be called a track car, yet it's still a street car and it doesn't fit into any real racing category and even if it did, it wouldn't be competitive as the amount of mods would push it into a category that the STi couldn't be a competitor in.

Once again, you weren't asking a question, but I'll give you an answer anyway.

It's not at all a street car, nor is it street legal. I no longer drive it to the track, the registration is not going to be renewed, and it no longer has regular car insurance. I don't see how you could call a car with no interior, no seat belts, no airbags, (no air conditioning this week), and a roll cage a street car, but that's your opinion. As far as a category, it's currently in NASA Class B with the mods it has. This class is where Porsche 996 Turbos, Corvette C6's, and the like, start in stock. Right now my car pulls near identical (or faster) lap times to Porsche GT3's, GT2's, Ferrari 360 CS's and 430's so it's safe to say that my car can most definitely compete with (and destroy) any of those class B cars. I don't exactly see how it "couldn't be a competitor." I might also add that when you go to a car show and see "race cars" 90% of them don't even run, so my car is more of a race car than most of the cars you would see at SEMA or other shows.

[/rant]

[91TB78]

I think your car is sweet! I'm a function over form kind of guy and your car fits that bill perfectly. Do I think every mod you've done is "clean or classy?" No, but it isn't a Benz either and I understand your purpose. Ben, you've done a sweet job sorting the car out, but I am interested in your suspenion. You're running the Tein coilovers with the EDFC, why not swap to something more hardcore race? Or did I miss that?

[Ben]

I've tried various setups in other cars, such as the Zeals, Cuscos, etc, and I just like the way the TEINs react. With the car as stiff as it is, having a slightly softer suspension is NOT a bad thing. The tracks in california are fairly bumpy in places and the TEIN suspensions absorbs the bumps and makes them disapear. It's VERY very compliant. A stiffer suspension hops over them, and everytime the suspension gets upset by a bump, you lose traction and you're slower.

A lot of people thought it was strange to run the TEIN's on my car, but after going for a ride, the questions went away . Basically, other than some infinitely adjustable $4,000+ setup, the TEIN's are the way to go; atleast for me. Right now there is more time to be made with Aero and weight loss than changing my suspension. It's very well dialed in right now, so it's one of those "don't fix it if it ain't broken" type of deals.