[dareseven]

Originally Posted by lennyk1313

Wow, what a disappointment Bruce. I never though someone like Crawford would do something like this, but.... Definitely a big strike out for Crawford from Subaru Community.

I am absolutely SICK of the Quirt Crawfords of the world. I am FLABBERGASTED that this "engine builder" has made it this far....no tolerance checking on a new piston design?

Are you kidding me Quirt? Are you high? Drunk? Both?

Crawford's name is no longer in the circle of trust. And it is VERY hard to get back into that circle once you have been booted out.

Way to go Quirt. Not only are you a stellar jack ass, but you have proved to the Subaru community that you truly don't care about your customers. ESPECIALLY those who have helped you sell more motors and MAKE MONEY.

Maybe their will be room for you at a local tire shop doing free rotations and balancing once this is all over!

[813_05_STi]

Originally Posted by Nivek

I hope your post will encourage others to do the necessary research before investing in a motor as an upgrade. As you noted, many of the people that tear out a perfectly good motor to buy an aftermarket one may not be as wise or have the experience that you or quirt have. They should know that these issues can arise with any product or company or in any transactions.

[Neanderthal Racing]

Originally Posted by Nivek

The fact that you clearly articulated that his quality control is an issue and must be fixed for you to consider this resolved is something that I can appreciate. Not only is it aimed at what you consider the root of the problem, but it shows you are not selfish and that if a true problem exists Quirt cannot shut you up by buying you off with a new motor and warranty (though I doubt Quirt would be the type from what I have heard to try and excercise such an option).

At the least, Quirt will be forced to justify the quality control measures he takes with his specific engines. I anticipate that he will face even more intense scrutiny from those considering his engine as an upgrade and who know of the issues you have raised in your thread here.

To add to the value of this thread, I want to ask you a question that I think many will find useful as well.

Now, that you have had this experience, how would your advice to those interested in building up their motors change? More importantly, what would you recommend they look into, what questions would you recommend that they ask, and what warranties should they expect at a minimum from an engine builder when buying such a motor?

The answers to these questions will help not only members of this forum but also the enthusiast community in general.

thanks for the question, nivek. i will make a point of committing my thoughts about the situation in general in a more formal way later but i do have a couple quick thoughts for the manufacturer and the consumer of crate motors, be they crawford axis or whoever.

manufacturer: don't make us do open heart surgery after installing one of your motors because you are too lazy to build a consistantly reliable motor. i said it once and i'll keep saying it; crawford got screwed by their overconfidence in others (subaru/cp pistons) to do their quality control for them. when your product is in the heart of the motor you just cannot make mistakes like this. if you are a munufacturer making the same mistake as crawford by not checking - i would say start checking tolerances on your motors before you box your next motor - starting this morning. also, have a warranty protocol that doesn't put an unfair burden on your customer (i didn't say, no burden). fix dumb mistakes like this before you are overtaken by events. this post had been around the world several times by 6pm last night and crawford had it in their lap in the morning. i have never seen anything like it. crawford's way of handling this violated every crisis management book ever written.

project builders: insist that the builder you choose has a written warranty policy; how many miles for how long and a reasonable oil consumption level. if subaru uses 1 qt per 1k miles, you should expect your builder to do it too. you have to track a oil consumption for a while because some oil problems solve themselves with miles. that's why it's so absurd for people to expect i take it off the road when the problem started. it sounds sensible on its face but it doesn't work that way.

the biggest lesson for me is to cover myself better next time. i put faith in crawford to build my motor and i should. i shouldn't have to check behind crawford or axis or cobb or cosworth to make sure they did their job. on the other hand, i guarantee you i will be more proactive about the quality control on the shortblock next time. it is your 3 grand, minimum, to exhaust the less dramatic diagnostic options culiminating with the removal, teardown and reinstallation of a motor and, in my case, the heads too and after only 3 months for god sakes.

in summary for manufacturers; learn from crawford's mistakes on their qc and sense of duty to us after the sale. for consumers, trust but verify. don't buy a shortblock from any vendor who is unwilling to affirm and deliver on what is "reasonable". check those clearances for yourself before you set the heads on the block. it's nice to be fast. it's also nice to stay on the road.

i forecast some significant changes coming from this debacle. everyone has something to learn from it, myself included.

[Neanderthal Racing]

i have a "big picture" lesson that i learned in the last 18 hours that deserves its own space.

in my first post i mentioned telling quirt, "for me, the pen is mightier than the sword." i want to add to that, because it is so powerful, it should be used with a real sense of responsibility. i'll use the metaphor of gun ownership and believe me this is every bit as powerful in its own way and just as humbling. powerful tools need to be held in the hand with a sense of responsibility. as an aside, i feel the same way here everyday. there are times when i would love to spar with someone, nasioc style, so to speak. but i have too many posts now to be irresponsible and too many people who know me by name and expect more from me. i learned a mini lesson from nivek on that issue last night.

[SoJDM.com]

What was the vendor's reply to the assertion that the pistons were undersized for the bore?

[Neanderthal Racing]

Originally Posted by SoJDM.com

What was the vendor's reply to the assertion that the pistons were undersized for the bore?

quirt: "what kind of problem could that cause?"

[wdb]

I hope your post will encourage others to do the necessary research before investing in a motor as an upgrade. As you noted, many of the people that tear out a perfectly good motor to buy an aftermarket one may not be as wise or have the experience that you or quirt have. They should know that these issues can arise with any product or company or in any transactions.

If you read the entire CutnEdge thread you must by now have come to the realization that Bruce did his homework, a lot of it, before making decisions on every single component of this build.

The only lesson to be learned here -- so far -- is that all the preparatory research in the world can be rendered meaningless when dealing with a personality-driven enterprise.

[munky69]

so were the clearences checked by you guys before the motor was installed? not blaming you,like i said before, why should you have to check after a self proclaimed expert? especially with the rep crawford had before this hit the fan

[donmei]

I've been hanging back just reading this.

First, I'm appalled (sp?) that a "custom" engine builder wouldn't check piston/cylinder clearances.

Second , I'm amazed that for the $1000 it would cost Quirt to resolve this, he isn't bothering to.

3rd - I'm shocked that someone could say that a piston swelled because of detonation which caused the problems with scoring. Well, I've gotten into detonation in race motors when I was younger. I've blown several of them up. Some at really bad times (Turn 3 at Laconia, flat out while turning as hard as I can and the engine locked up solid - a quick hand on the clutch saved my a55)

And guess what, I can definitely say is that detonation holes pistons, it cracks them it does all kinds of thing that a violent banging could cause. It does NOT gently swell them until they drag in their bore, then allow them to cool with NO evidence on the piston crown. Comeon.

I'm the one constantly saying on this board, if you want to play, you've got to pay.

Bruce truly understands this. When he and I met and he said 30psi!!. I said 30psi!!??!!! He knew the risks.

But this thing started burning oil when it was making less than stock boost. No way it was detonating way back then.

I had always thought that Quirt was a standup guy. Oh well. I only post this now because I have met Bruce. I know how careful he was. Otherwise I'd wait to hear the other side of the story. But in this case, the postings on crawfords web site tell the other side, and show that its bs.

Don

[JohnDoe1211]

Bruce thats bullSheeett im with you 100%!

I hate it when people try to blame others for their own mistakes... i wanna see quirt live up to himself and admit he was wrong to redeem himself and I hope he does check every motor after assembly cause quite frankly this is not the business for screw ups.....assumptions are the mother of all fu*k ups. That is obviously a phrase that quirt does not go by.

[Adam]

is it me, or is there a thread almost exactly like this on Nabisco where another Crawford motor has undersized pistons installed by mistake, not just bruce??

Check it out over there... didnt read into it b/c of time but thought it was worth noting.

Ap

[dareseven]

The future months will be bleak for Crawford Performance and Miami Vice Mullet wearing Quirt Crawford.

[813_05_STi]

Originally Posted by dareseven

The future months will be bleak for Crawford Performance and Miami Vice Mullet wearing Quirt Crawford.

Seriously... There are prolly 350 chevy pistons!! Mullet men have v8 on the brain

[Neanderthal Racing]

i'm not posting this on the bobblehead threads here or on nasioc. i do think it's appropriate that the people following my build thread know what is going on. if nobody takes me up on this i do not want anyone whining or complaining out loud in this or any other thread. if i do, smack me around a couple times. this is just between you and me.

i just sent this out to all the likely companies:

Dear motor builder,

If you have been watching the "bobblehead" threads on iwsti and nasioc you are already aware of what has taken place with my Crawford shortblock. I won't repeat the details.

My plan for the racing season now includes a total rebuild of my motor. We are going to try to salvage the stroker crank and Pauter rods. Everything else is being tossed. The heads as you can see in the video are a mess. I have undertaken this project with a clear view of the pitfalls from the very beginning. This is nothing more than a speed bump on our way to Englishtown and Atco there is no doubt in my mind that we can be competitive against the best cars there. The project has been completely financed by me and I am very proud of what we have done with the CUTN EDG project. I am not waiting for help from anyone.

However, the entire Subaru community is watching as this story unfolds. I believe any builder that steps forward to offer sponsorship with this project will be rewarded many times over for the gesture. I think I have shown myself to be an articulate spokesman. I am a writer of some skill and experience and I will work as hard for you as I did for Quirt before this transpired. I take no pleasure in any of this. You are also getting a very promising team to represent you during this and future seasons and for 24/7 out here on iwsti and nasioc and wherever I go. If you choose not to sponsor the project, I thank you for reading this and I look forward to meeting you someday, anyway.

I would like to add that, no matter how you respond to my request, the bar for quality control and commitment to product and customer service is going to be raised. No one in good conscience will be able to toss in pistons and keep their fingers crossed and a good fairy tale on hand. It has been an expensive lesson for me at a financial and an emotional level; gut wrenching would be an apt description, I hope everyone can benefit, even Quirt.

In order, below, are links to project Gallery page, the CUTN EDG build thread and a "how to" article I wrote for HSPN Network.

Thanks,

Bruce Chapman
CUTN EDG Project
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=28
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23326
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37014

[dareseven]

Originally Posted by BruceChapman

This is nothing more than a speed bump on our way to Englishtown and Atco there is no doubt in my mind that we can be competitive against the best cars there. The project has been completely financed by me and I am very proud of what we have done with the CUTN EDG project. I am not waiting for help from anyone.

[i]However, the entire Subaru community is watching as this story unfolds. I believe any builder that steps forward to offer sponsorship with this project will be rewarded many times over for the gesture.
Bruce Chapman

Very well said.

Bruce is a man of his word. The results of this finished project will be.......stellar. As a supporter/fan/spectator, I look forward to new developments and forward progress with sweet anticipation.