[4MLA1FN]

i called my insurance co (travelers) and asked about coverage at hpde/driving school events. after several "questions then put on hold" cycles, they finally said that i would not be covered, and further, they will likely not renew my policy now that they know i take the car to track. i had to chuckle. well, time to find a new insurer.

[MY_SUV]

I too checked with my insurance company prior to attending my first HPDE. My agent worked for about 30 minutes trying to come up with an answer and finally just told me with a wink, "it didn't happen at the track, it happened on the way home".

It felt kind of weird having my agent "wink" insurance fraud but at least it told me where I stand.

After attending the event, I won't worry about insurance coverage any longer. At no point did I feel there was a serious risk of damaging my car.

[matadorCE]

I can't remember if it was in here or in NASIOC where someone posted that USAA had also dropped them for asking about coverage during hpde events. I guess it's "don't ask don't tell" with insurance companies and hpde's.

[4MLA1FN]

i think ft@sp said progressive doesn't have a problem with hpde. i cooked up an online quote from them that is $1000/yr less than i'm paying now!! . it was $2400 with travelers, now progressive is quoting $1400 for majorly maxed out coverage and $100 deductable. (btw, that quote is for the sti and a 2000 outback wagon.)

[crashsti]

i was under the impression that insurance companies just did'nt cover your car the minute it hit the track. maybe thats just my policy?

[WRX_Mundi]

Originally Posted by 4MLA1FN

i called my insurance co (travelers) and asked about coverage at hpde/driving school events. after several "questions then put on hold" cycles, they finally said that i would not be covered, and further, they will likely not renew my policy now that they know i take the car to track. i had to chuckle. well, time to find a new insurer.

I did the same with my insurer -- State Farm. The local rep was very dubious since it involved speeds higher than average freeway driving :-?. She called the underwriter, then called me back and said that first of all, I'm still covered, but the underwriter had recommended dropping me immediately. So I wouldn't get right on the phone to your agent about this sort of thing (perhaps call a different agent and don't give them your real name). Annoying that they're punishing people for telling the truth.

Anyway, the policy states (and they even sent me a formal new amendment to my policy making it really really clear) that I have zero coverage of any type for any policy with them if I am "racing." They either refuse to define racing or don't understand my question, but that's the best I could get out of them. The rep seemed to think that a HPDE was racing since it involved "high" speeds. I explained what went on at one, and her classic reply was, "But.. but that sounds useful!" Duh! Personally I think everyone should be required to be signed off solo at a HPDE or pass 3 days of Skip Barber just as a requirement for a basic driving license, but I understand that's a little extreme for the voters. Anyway, she verbally indicated that the HPDE as I explained it didn't sound like racing to her, but who knows what the agent or underwriter would think.

Personally I think: club racing (i.e. wheel to wheel, timed, competitive event) is not covered; Solo I (e.g. hill climb -- one car, but timed competitive event) is not covered, HPDE (other cars on track, but not timed and not competitive, plus instructors) is covered. Solo II (autocross) is a gray one. Under my definition of racing I'd say it was not covered but I know a lot of agents seem to cover it.

[4MLA1FN]

i'm an idiot. that was for a 6mo quote. (why the heck they give a 6mo quote?? who cares? why not a 2.4923 month quote?) :evil:

[4MLA1FN]

Originally Posted by WRX_Mundi

Personally I think everyone should be required to be signed off solo at a HPDE or pass 3 days of Skip Barber just as a requirement for a basic driving license...

i'm with you 100%. my kids will do it when the time comes.

Originally Posted by WRX_Mundi

Solo II (autocross) is a gray one. Under my definition of racing I'd say it was not covered but I know a lot of agents seem to cover it.

my guess is that solo II is covered because: a) the speeds are quite low; b) cars race the clock, not each other; c) there are no (or very few) stationary obstacles; d) and historically, solo II claims are very rare. dunno for sure, that that's my guess.

[Yukonart]

I got the same treatment from my insurer (USAA) for questioning THEIR question "Will this vehicle be used for racing or commercial transportation?"

I simply asked for clarification on the racing part, and they sent an alert to underwriting. The agent was instructed to end the phone call until underwriting got back to him. I raied a MAJOR stink with them over that. I was asking for CLARIFICATION on THEIR QUESTION. They look at anyone questioning their question as interested, I guess.

Needless to say, I'll never talk to any insurance agency about it in the future. If I ever go to race with a track-only car, then I'll look into commercial insurance for the track, if it even exists.

[Snax]

There are many insurers who do not have a problem with people who race their cars. Most just exclude coverages for any damage that results while engaged in racing. Some do not exclude all coverages however. I know for certain that my Allstate policy excludes coverage for everything but damage to the vehicle - and I was neither second guessed, challenged, nor cancelled when I turned in a claim for my totalled MR2 Turbo that I used in a failed attempt at logging while running in a hillclimb.

Regardless of what your agent tells you, read it for yourself in the policy. They will more often than not take the side of covering their own butts on what they tell you, and deny having said otherwise if they were wrong! And if you don't understand what your policy is telling you, ask your agent to go over the relevant parts with you. If the agent can't help you, talk to a claim representative because they are judge, jury, and executioner when you actually file a claim. Get a firm answer, or get another insurance company!

[FT@SGP]

I work all day, try to serve you guys, post information, volunteer help; and none of you pay attention :evil:

LOL, I am just kidding of course. I had posted information on this very issue few weeks back just days before our crash at VIR LOL.

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuk...ewtopic&t=7291

That thread contains a link to explanation of insurance coverage for driving education events. Please take time to read it, and if you don't mind it, 4MLA1FN, you might want to make it a sticky as all "weekend warriors" should read.

The basic message is that don't ask your insurance agent What he says has no meaning. The only binding contract between the parties is your policy. If the policy does not explicitly exclude "HPDE" events than you are covered. It may take a lawyer to get the money, but you are covered. There is just no reason to trust the words of an agent as you cannot prove that he/she said so one way or another; and same goes for your insurance company, they cannot say "we told you so" if your policy does not say so

We have Geico, not Progressive. And yes, they are paying our damages from VIR with relative ease. That does not mean they are at ease with it They called twice asking for recoded ineterviews about the incident and ask for a letter of proof that I was a student in the event. Our club "BMWCCA" has been doing HPDEs for three decades and know this type of thing and their letter is pre-written proving our circumstance. It was easy for me. I don't know what would happen if a similar crash happens at a FATT event at Summit, but I would not bet on help from them.

We are small company with limited resources, hence we cannot rent a track just to our own for testing; and participating in HPDEs have many benefits like the one I mentioned above as long as the club is an established one like BMWCCA or the Audi club. We are new to the business but we have been around for a while, and we know these things do happen at the track and even autox.

So, my first advice to you, if you are not a member of BMWCCA and/or Audi clubs, do become one. Yearly membership is only $40, it is nothing compared to the benefits, especially if you will be participating in track and/or autox events.

Second, please don't ask your agent, it really has no meaning. Just open you existing policy and read it. If it does not say explicitly that you are not covered for something, you are covered.

Third, if you will be attending HPDEs regularly or more than 2 times a year, get track insurance. It shows its pretty face in case something goes really bad and your car has to be totalled. It is not that expensive, and worth the piece of mind. Here is one example: http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_policy.htm. I ran an estimate on a $35K worth STi, yearly premium is estimated as $525 We are definetly getting that.

Regards.

[wewu]

I was under the impression that if its not a timed event you're covered.

[Janq]

Originally Posted by matadorCE

I can't remember if it was in here or in NASIOC where someone posted that USAA had also dropped them for asking about coverage during hpde events. I guess it's "don't ask don't tell" with insurance companies and hpde's.

It was at NASIOC most recently in the Mid-Atl group last November or so. There have been to my recollectiontwo folks that have bent & twisted their STi's and one WRX at the track.

Folks the answer to this question is in your insurance binder as it details _exactly_ what is and is not covered. Calling your insurance company and telling them you will 'racing your car on a track' (they don't know what an HPDE is) is only going to give them reason to either not renew you (you are now a high risk!) or bump your rate sky high. Additionally auto insurance is coverage intended for driving on highways and public roads, not at tracks and such. Operating your vehicle in a 'off-highway' environment at a track is not generally covered. You can though purchase supplemental insurance through some carriers but expect to pay as stuff ain't free or cheap. The bottom line is either use a car that you can afford to tweak and repair on your own (i.e. a used Miata), and/or save up cash reserves for the worst and keep it somewhere relatively liquid (i.e. self-insure) or simply do not take your daily driver/unpaid for car to the track.

- Janq

[jim]

Originally Posted by crashsti

i was under the impression that insurance companies just did'nt cover your car the minute it hit the track. maybe thats just my policy?

Unfortunately, that is true for Massachusetts. Our lovely state sets what insurance premiums are, and defines what is/isn't covered.

The wording is something along the lines of no organized driving off public roads will be covered (or something like that).

Jim

[srf]

i'm an idiot. that was for a 6mo quote. (why the heck they give a 6mo quote?? who cares? why not a 2.4923 month quote?)

Progressive's insurance policies last for six month periods. Of course, it may also be a way to sucker more people into signing up. =)