[javid]

After reading the whole thread I want to point out that speed bleeders seem to work fine for me. I've bled my brakes 10 to 15 times. ~32k on the car.

Eventually I will get a presure bleeder which will allow me flush the ABS resevoir(s) out better which I hear helps if you have beaten the crap out of the car...

Also, you don't want to put DOT 5 in your brake system, either 4 or 5.1... 5 requires a braking system designed for 5 (it was an idea that auto manufactures and fluid companies tried but didn't last).

Lastly, dry and wet boiling points are some what usless if you don't understand what wet means and consider the fluid's hygroscopic property. Hygroscopisty (if that is in fact a word) determines how quickly the fluid will absorb water. Wet boiling poitn is the builing point at a certain percentage of water (I think most use 3% or maybe 0.3%). In any event, some trusted local racers said go with superblue over motul RBF 600. The reason being that the super blue will out perform the 600 in the long run. I spent a good bit of time reviewing the two online and found that allow the 600 has a better dry point it won't stay there for long, it is much more hygroscopic that the super blue... Also, it seemed that the 600 could easily abosorb more water than the percentage used i their published wet building point. After much review it seemed that for autoXers or HPDE folks blue was clearly better (and it seems to be since I have switched 3 or 4 track weekends ago) for a competative road racer 600 will work better especially for sprint races, for enduros the blue may be the best bet.

I bleed very frequently because I track the car. For a daily driver / canyon cruiser you should pay even more attention to the hygroscopic value and wet builing point, the dry piont will be meaningless with in short time.

[vandersti]

I was wondering why this isnt a sticky? There is alot of good info here.

VAN

[Stee]

I used the Motive Power Bleeder for the first time yesterday. While the process was a bit slow at first, it became easier once I built a routine. I also opted not to fill the Motive container up, but chose to merely pressurize it while empty to facilitate the process of pushing the old fluid out while keeping a full/semi-full brake fluid reservoir.

My routine:

*Words of advice: a.)Be slowwww with the bleeder screws b.)Monitor your psi gauge on the Motive container c.)Monitor your fluid levels at the brake reservoir at all times


1.) Fill brake fluid reservoir to MAX or just a tiny bit above
2.) Install Motive Power Bleeder and pressurize to 12-15 psi
3.) Begin with the Front-Right caliper, open inside bleeder til clear, close it, then the outside one til clear, then close it.
4.) Depressurize Power Motive container by unscrewing its cap VERY slowly(the Motive's cap, NOT the brake reservoir cap!!!
5.) Fill brake fluid reservoir to MAX again
6.) Install Motive Power Bleeder to reservoir and pressurize again to 12-15 psi.
7.) Move to Rear-Left, inside bleeder first til clear, then close it, then outside bleeder til clear, then close it.

*Disclaimer: Depending on how gutsy you are in running the brake reservoir down, you may need to intervene during the bleeding of the rear brakes due to the length of the lines. Simply follow Steps 4-6, then continue what you were doing at that particular bleed screw.

8.) After you finish with the Rear-Left caliper, follow steps 4 & 5, then install the factory yellow brake reservoir cap.
9.) Start the vehicle- DO NOT touch the brake pedal at this time!!!!
10.) Shut off the vehicle after 10 seconds or until you start to feel light-headed.
11.) Follow Step 6.
12.) Move to the Front-Left caliper, inside bleeder first til clear, then close it, then the outside bleeder, then close it.
13.) Follow Steps 4, 5, and 6.
14.) Move to Rear-Right caliper, inside bleeder first til clear, then close it, then the outside bleeder, then close it.
15.) Follow Steps 4 and 5, then install yellow brake reservoir cap.
16.) Start vehicle and examine pedal feel and stroke.
17.) If confident, spray entire brake area with brake cleaner to remove any contaminants.
18.) Put your wheels on(duh) and take it for a drive. Activate ABS by braking like you saw Bill Clinton on the side of the road running a cigar stand.
19.) If you are special like me, you would have done it right the first time.

I got it right using this method. In all, I used 2.5 pints of Motul RBF600. The Motive Power Bleeder is great because it eliminated one huge variable- your buddy pushing the brake pedal. It offered me a consistent way of pushing the old stuff out, at MY leisure. The Motive Power Bleeder is definitely a item.

[zell_06]

Thanks for the post. This really helps out. Keep it up.
-Zell

[QuickSilverSTi]

So I installed SS lines and am trying this vac method but I've spent an hour just on one caliper and am getting a ton of air out. I must be doing something wrong. The pressure starts to drop as soon as I open the bleeder screw no matter how slowly I try it. Quitting for the night and I think I will trash this thing and try the normal method or install the speed bleeders I have sitting around. Dern it.

[QuickSilverSTi]

That's an interesting piece of information....great I gave up and started to install those speed bleeders and in my attempt to not strip the bleeder screws, I broke out my handy-dandy torque wrench which I set to 5.5 ft lbs...a whole .3 cushion....yeah, the POS didn't register it so I started to strip the thread...back in went the stocker. Ordered a helicoil insert kit tonight just in case the threads give up on me tomorrow when I resort to the natural foot-pump method. I sure hope I don't see any seeping over night. At least I was able to spot the nail in my rear tire during the install before I started to get a flat. A wonderful DIY day indeed.

[azndc5er]

Sorry to hear that dude. ****ty torque wrenches won't register anything under like 40 ft lbs.

[QuickSilverSTi]

Well, just got done and everything appears to have sealed up. One bleeder (not the one I was worried about earlier...that one sealed up) was seeping but it finally sealed...was nervous about stripping it. I have a helicoil kit on order just in case the one bleeder gives up the threads in the future. The two-person method, in my opinion, destroys the mity-vac method. That being said, this thread really helped me understand how to use the vac but understanding and then implementing that knowledge is probably where I went wrong. If anyone in the northern VA area wants to borrow it and give it a shot before buying their own, just PM me. I have the key portions of this thread printed off so you can ref it when you try it out.

[royalsti]

Man that sucks. I'm going to purchase the Motive bleeder for the one man op. Doesn't seem to be a bad price for the convenience it provides.

[docwyte]

Ok, what's the deal with the bleeding order? Why aren't you guys bleeding the caliper the furthest from the master cylinder first? Ie, right rear ouside nipple, then inside nipple, then left rear outside nipple, inside nipple, right front outside nipple, inside nipple, then left front?

This is the way I was taught and I've always done it.

Also, there's no way you're going to force air into brake fluid via pressure suspension with the Motiv power bleeder...

[docwyte]

Hmm, learn a new thing everyday!

[perm]

nevermind

[Stee]

Originally Posted by perm

I just read this whole thread and was thinking this the entire time. I have never heard of bleeding in the order in this write-up.

I concur with Doc, start with the furthest from the master cylinder (outside bleeder first, inside second) and work your way to the driver's front caliper.

http://www.velozt.com/elements/tech/...r-Bleeding.pdf

Page BR45.
Subaru knows best!

I believe the reason for the Subaru bleeding sequence is the way the proportioning system works. If in the event of a severed brake line or blown tire, the proportioning system is setup to failsafe diagonally, which allows the driver to safely scrub speed to a halt.

[perm]

Originally Posted by Stee

http://www.velozt.com/elements/tech/...r-Bleeding.pdf

Page BR45.
Subaru knows best!

I believe the reason for the Subaru bleeding sequence is the way the proportioning system works. If in the event of a severed brake line or blown tire, the proportioning system is setup to failsafe diagonally, which allows the driver to safely scrub speed to a halt.

I stand corrected...interesting...thanks for posting that!

[S1MPSONS]

Originally Posted by Rev

What you might wanna do before you start bleeding the fluid out, is, pump out all the fluid from the reservoir and fill with your new fluid of choice up to the brim.

In case anyone was wondering how to get the fluid out: You can use a turkey baster (provided you don't planning on using at Thanksgiving) to pull the fluid out of the resevior. Becareful not to let any drip out of the end of the turkey baster onto the paint or into the engine bay when you pull it out of the resevior.